Comments on: Same Story, Different Cast: '90210' To Have A Lesbian Storyline

By: How Can i Get Taller

How Can i Get Taller — Mon, 18 Apr 2011 20:40:35 +0000

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By: Mark O. Estes

Mark O. Estes — Mon, 02 Nov 2009 08:39:00 +0000

Pixie, Marco's storyline not only affected him, but his friends as well. It was done in a believable fashion, I guess. All I am saying is that I don't want my kids to think one day that it's OK to accept lesbians, but not gay men. We are all equal and I felt that The N promoted the lesbian relationship on South of Nowhere as if it was the hottest thing going for the show and they never said anything about Marco's problems. Paige and Alex wasn't even promoted that much, because Palex didn't last long enough. But alas…

You know I just found out that Adamo Ruggiero was gay like last night? Didn't have a clue.

By: Mark O. Estes

Mark O. Estes — Mon, 02 Nov 2009 07:39:00 +0000

Pixie, Marco’s storyline not only affected him, but his friends as well. It was done in a believable fashion, I guess. All I am saying is that I don’t want my kids to think one day that it’s OK to accept lesbians, but not gay men. We are all equal and I felt that The N promoted the lesbian relationship on South of Nowhere as if it was the hottest thing going for the show and they never said anything about Marco’s problems. Paige and Alex wasn’t even promoted that much, because Palex didn’t last long enough. But alas…

You know I just found out that Adamo Ruggiero was gay like last night? Didn’t have a clue.

By: Pixie Wings

Pixie Wings — Mon, 02 Nov 2009 07:03:00 +0000

Mark, I was actually thinking of Paige and Alex on Degrassi, but the way they handled Marco's storyline was great. I wonder if they started that storyline because the actor playing Marco actually is gay (although he didn't come out publicly until 2 years ago).

By: Pixie Wings

Pixie Wings — Mon, 02 Nov 2009 06:03:00 +0000

Mark, I was actually thinking of Paige and Alex on Degrassi, but the way they handled Marco’s storyline was great. I wonder if they started that storyline because the actor playing Marco actually is gay (although he didn’t come out publicly until 2 years ago).

By: Mark O. Estes

Mark O. Estes — Mon, 02 Nov 2009 04:25:00 +0000

First of all, everyone I am loving all of your comments on this subject. They are thoughtful, insightful commentaries and not Snarkfest 09. I appreciate all of you.

D.H., coming from a stand point where people (wrongly) assume that there is no such thing as a bisexual male and that some same sex female relationships are "acceptable", I can't see how bisexual men are represented well since the straight and some of the gay community declare that they are a myth. And when a man does come out as bisexual on TV he is practically "castrated" for being so, remembering the Ally McBeal episode.

As for the mention of South of Nowhere, I really didn't want to watch the show because of how it was promoted. From the outset, it seemed as if they promoted the Spencer Ashley relationship more than anything else on the show. That's not problem, but Degrassi featured Marco, a kid coming to terms with his sexuality, but it never was promoted to the extremes that they did with South of Nowhere's lesbian couple, which bothered me, because I felt that it fit into the "lesbians are cool, but gay men are not" thought process that permeates the social consciousness today. And when one sits down to actually watch South of Nowhere there is so much more going on the show than the lesbian storyline and that I feel that the ads didn't do it any justice. In short, I felt that the N ads "exploited" the Spencer/Ashley relationship rather do it some sort of justice. That's just me though.

HEX, which was one of the best shows on TV, did represent the lesbian storyline greatly, but it didn't feature someone discovering that they were a lesbian and coming to terms with it as the ones I listed. Thelma knew who she was and was never ashamed or had to come to terms with anything. But I see where you would list it as such and your an automatic pal, because you watch HEX. ;)

Never seen Sugar Rush and never got a chance to experience Once and Again and I will take your word on the subject. But Skins? One of the best (if not the best) teen shows on TV right now and I concur 100% about Emily and Naomi's storyline. American TV wish they could match the superb writing that Skins offers like the smack that the teens deal and take part in on a daily basis. I will give that AfterEllen.com article a look though. Thanks for the comments, D.H.!

By: D.H.

D.H. — Mon, 02 Nov 2009 03:29:00 +0000

Mark, the best ever done was Once and Again. It is the gold standard of that plotline. As for the Heroes debacle, I would have agreed before the season. However it seems as if Claire will be losing her virginity to Gretchen. The show is actually being noticed for upending cliches from the lesbian stalker and killer to the transitory ratings ploy to the making fun of the I like you but not that way conversation. Much of this season of Heroes has been a play on one's tendency to fix someone's sexuality and the virginal Claire, with her many male/female ships but minimal romantic life makes sense.

Also GLAAD shows that bisexual or gay male representation on television is far more than bisexual female/lesbian representation. Anyways as far as lesbian/bisexual female representation, I agree with the bad exploitative representation being The OC, House and Melrose Place. In terms of non cable shows I would also include Bones, Ally McBeal, Party of Five, and All My Children. I can't agree with Degrassi or Grey's Anatomy really working all that well (minimal screentime on an ensemble) but I do think they meant well.

As far as the good, I'd say Buffy and Once and Again. However I really think Heroes is surprisingly going to join the good. I recommend reading AfterEllen.com which has also expressed shock that the plotline is not the exploitative quagmire as expected. Instead it has been very sincere.

As far as cable, I recommend Sugar Rush, Hex, South of Nowhere (despite being censored badly by the N)and the amazing Skins.

By: Mark O. Estes

Mark O. Estes — Mon, 02 Nov 2009 03:25:00 +0000

First of all, everyone I am loving all of your comments on this subject. They are thoughtful, insightful commentaries and not Snarkfest 09. I appreciate all of you.

D.H., coming from a stand point where people (wrongly) assume that there is no such thing as a bisexual male and that some same sex female relationships are “acceptable”, I can’t see how bisexual men are represented well since the straight and some of the gay community declare that they are a myth. And when a man does come out as bisexual on TV he is practically “castrated” for being so, remembering the Ally McBeal episode.

As for the mention of South of Nowhere, I really didn’t want to watch the show because of how it was promoted. From the outset, it seemed as if they promoted the Spencer Ashley relationship more than anything else on the show. That’s not problem, but Degrassi featured Marco, a kid coming to terms with his sexuality, but it never was promoted to the extremes that they did with South of Nowhere’s lesbian couple, which bothered me, because I felt that it fit into the “lesbians are cool, but gay men are not” thought process that permeates the social consciousness today. And when one sits down to actually watch South of Nowhere there is so much more going on the show than the lesbian storyline and that I feel that the ads didn’t do it any justice. In short, I felt that the N ads “exploited” the Spencer/Ashley relationship rather do it some sort of justice. That’s just me though.

HEX, which was one of the best shows on TV, did represent the lesbian storyline greatly, but it didn’t feature someone discovering that they were a lesbian and coming to terms with it as the ones I listed. Thelma knew who she was and was never ashamed or had to come to terms with anything. But I see where you would list it as such and your an automatic pal, because you watch HEX. ;)

Never seen Sugar Rush and never got a chance to experience Once and Again and I will take your word on the subject. But Skins? One of the best (if not the best) teen shows on TV right now and I concur 100% about Emily and Naomi’s storyline. American TV wish they could match the superb writing that Skins offers like the smack that the teens deal and take part in on a daily basis. I will give that AfterEllen.com article a look though. Thanks for the comments, D.H.!

By: D.H.

D.H. — Mon, 02 Nov 2009 02:29:00 +0000

Mark, the best ever done was Once and Again. It is the gold standard of that plotline. As for the Heroes debacle, I would have agreed before the season. However it seems as if Claire will be losing her virginity to Gretchen. The show is actually being noticed for upending cliches from the lesbian stalker and killer to the transitory ratings ploy to the making fun of the I like you but not that way conversation. Much of this season of Heroes has been a play on one’s tendency to fix someone’s sexuality and the virginal Claire, with her many male/female ships but minimal romantic life makes sense.

Also GLAAD shows that bisexual or gay male representation on television is far more than bisexual female/lesbian representation. Anyways as far as lesbian/bisexual female representation, I agree with the bad exploitative representation being The OC, House and Melrose Place. In terms of non cable shows I would also include Bones, Ally McBeal, Party of Five, and All My Children. I can’t agree with Degrassi or Grey’s Anatomy really working all that well (minimal screentime on an ensemble) but I do think they meant well.

As far as the good, I’d say Buffy and Once and Again. However I really think Heroes is surprisingly going to join the good. I recommend reading AfterEllen.com which has also expressed shock that the plotline is not the exploitative quagmire as expected. Instead it has been very sincere.

As far as cable, I recommend Sugar Rush, Hex, South of Nowhere (despite being censored badly by the N)and the amazing Skins.

By: Mark O. Estes

Mark O. Estes — Sun, 01 Nov 2009 21:44:00 +0000

Pixie, I pegged all of the vampires on True Blood to go both ways to an extent in order to feed, lol!

By: Pixie Wings

Pixie Wings — Sun, 01 Nov 2009 21:38:00 +0000

Degrassi has always been a show to break down boundries- I remember when Caitlyn was the first TV character to say "fuck" on national TV, and that was at least 15 years ago.

Much as I loved Tara and Willow- I was heartbroken when Oz left the show :(

Is Eric on True Blood not bisexual?

By: Mark O. Estes

Mark O. Estes — Sun, 01 Nov 2009 20:44:00 +0000

Pixie, I pegged all of the vampires on True Blood to go both ways to an extent in order to feed, lol!

By: Pixie Wings

Pixie Wings — Sun, 01 Nov 2009 20:38:00 +0000

Mark, there is also the whole Janice is gay but 6 months from now is knocked up storyline on FlashForward- it seemed like FF pulled that one out of thin air as well, perhaps to make the Flashes seem not always destined to happen?
Degrassi has always been a show to break down boundries- I remember when Caitlyn was the first TV character to say “fuck” on national TV, and that was at least 15 years ago.
Much as I loved Tara and Willow- I was heartbroken when Oz left the show :(
Is Eric on True Blood not bisexual?

By: Mark O. Estes

Mark O. Estes — Sun, 01 Nov 2009 20:32:00 +0000

INS – I am a religious watcher of Torchwood, but 1) as you said many people refer to him as "gay", because if a man kisses another man then he's gay, but if two females do it then they are either experimenting or living out a man's fantasy. 2) The Brits break barriers way earlier and more often than we do here in the States and such things that are everyday factors there are OMG moments here. Footballers Wives had not only a swinger couple in Conrad and Amber Gates, but Conrad was an open bisexual who had relationships with two women and a man during one season.

By: Mark O. Estes

Mark O. Estes — Sun, 01 Nov 2009 20:27:00 +0000

Harpie, I feel like a frakking idiot!!! BtVS DID do the lesbian storyline justice with Willow and Tara. I feel ashamed since their picture is on my wall… Thank you for pointing that out. I will update the article.

By: Mark O. Estes

Mark O. Estes — Sun, 01 Nov 2009 19:32:00 +0000

INS – I am a religious watcher of Torchwood, but 1) as you said many people refer to him as “gay”, because if a man kisses another man then he’s gay, but if two females do it then they are either experimenting or living out a man’s fantasy. 2) The Brits break barriers way earlier and more often than we do here in the States and such things that are everyday factors there are OMG moments here. Footballers Wives had not only a swinger couple in Conrad and Amber Gates, but Conrad was an open bisexual who had relationships with two women and a man during one season.

By: Mark O. Estes

Mark O. Estes — Sun, 01 Nov 2009 19:27:00 +0000

By: Harpie

Harpie — Sun, 01 Nov 2009 17:30:00 +0000

That should say "not."

By: Harpie

Harpie — Sun, 01 Nov 2009 17:29:00 +0000

"The bisexual female/lesbian storylines have been done to death and have only been sweeps stunts that last a couple of episodes and the female in question is hetero again."

I pretty certain the Willow/Tara, and later Willow/Kennedy, storyline on BtVS was on a sweeps stunt.

By: Harpie

Harpie — Sun, 01 Nov 2009 16:30:00 +0000

That should say “not.”

By: Harpie

Harpie — Sun, 01 Nov 2009 16:29:00 +0000

“The bisexual female/lesbian storylines have been done to death and have only been sweeps stunts that last a couple of episodes and the female in question is hetero again.”

I pretty certain the Willow/Tara, and later Willow/Kennedy, storyline on BtVS was on a sweeps stunt.

By: Insomniac Non Sequit

Insomniac Non Sequit — Sun, 01 Nov 2009 15:15:00 +0000

The lead character of the series UK series (and global smash, relatively speaking) Torchwood, Captain Jack Harkness (played by John Barrowman) is a bisexual man, though for whatever reason, most media/reviewers refer to the character as a simply 'gay' hero. While not the focus of the entire series, Harkness' sexuality was not a one off or limited to a few episodes; it's a central aspect of his character, it's who he is, who he has been, and who he will be for millions of years (because Harkness is unkillable). If you haven't seen Torchwood, check it out; it gets pretty good after a shaky first few episodes. – INS

By: Insomniac Non Sequitur

Insomniac Non Sequitur — Sun, 01 Nov 2009 14:15:00 +0000

The lead character of the series UK series (and global smash, relatively speaking) Torchwood, Captain Jack Harkness (played by John Barrowman) is a bisexual man, though for whatever reason, most media/reviewers refer to the character as a simply ‘gay’ hero. While not the focus of the entire series, Harkness’ sexuality was not a one off or limited to a few episodes; it’s a central aspect of his character, it’s who he is, who he has been, and who he will be for millions of years (because Harkness is unkillable). If you haven’t seen Torchwood, check it out; it gets pretty good after a shaky first few episodes. – INS