Yeah, you read the title of this article correctly. Over the past few weeks, a lot of the news regarding HBO's Game of Thrones have involved breasts. Or tits, depending on your perspective.
That's right -- the HBO series has come under fire for its female nudity, mostly from Los Angeles Times critic Mary McNamara, who wrote an article asking HBO to "tone down the tits," or the "lazy and sexist" female nudity that pervaded throughout the show's first season. She cited the final scene of the season as an example of the more positive showing of 'breasts,' while scenes such as Littlefinger's now-infamous monologue and the scene with Ros and Pycelle as being examples of gratuitous 'tits.'
But is she missing the point? Being the Game of Thrones fanboy that I am, I beg to differ.
A lot of the nudity in Game of Thrones is taken straight from the source material. Granted, the prostitute Ros had a much inflated role on television than in the books, but her presence allowed us a chance to see scenes not included in the books. In effect, she was a new point-of-view character for the season, showing us looks at Theon, Littlefinger, and Pycelle that weren't included in the book. Sure, she was naked for a lot of her screen time, but her position as a prostitute allowed her to hear things that we wouldn't have otherwise heard.
That's not to forget that this is a show about an amoral fantasy world, where women are generally excluded from positions of power. Some of the nudity used on the show is to illustrate that helplessness: remember in the first episode when Viserys appraised his nude sister Daenerys as she looked on, having been reduced to a piece of livestock? That's not gratuity, it's using nudity to prove a point.
Other women, like Ros, use their bodies to elevate them to positions of power that they would otherwise be denied. After all, simply being a prostitute allows Ros to have conversations with two of the king's closest advisors. It's all part of the titular game, and while Ros will ultimately be of no consequence, she's elevating herself to power in her own way.
In fact, the only gratuity I can really recall is the Hodor penis scene. It was in George R.R. Martin's original book, but it serves no story purpose. No storyline or exposition is revealed by Hodor's penis, or even in the presence of Hodor's penis. It's just there for a moment so that Osha can make a cheeky remark about Hodor having giant's blood.
And I'm not saying that there is no gratuitous nudity. Some of the background scenes in Littlefinger's brothel are just sort of pointless, other than to illustrate that it's a brothel. But to call it 'sexist' and 'lazy' is sensationalistic. Breasts or tits: if it serves the story, what's it really matter?
Sorry but the Ros scenes were awful, period. Piss poor writing not worthy or consistent with anything George Martin would do. The show is rushed for 10 episodes, they cut major story elements like Tyrion's battle in the vanguard but find time to include this garbage.
That is why people are annoyed.
These are the writing credits according to IMDB for the writer of the book George RR Martin:
"Game of Thrones" (11 episodes )
Winter Is Coming (17 April 2011) – co-executive producer , Writer (based on "A Song of Ice and Fire")
The Kingsroad (24 April 2011) – co-executive producer , Writer (based on "A Song of Ice and Fire")
Lord Snow (1 May 2011) – co-executive producer , Writer (based on "A Song of Ice and Fire")
Cripples, Bastards, and Broken Things (8 May 2011) – Writer (series of novels "A Song of Ice and Fire")
The Wolf and the Lion (15 May 2011) – Writer (series of novels "A Song of Ice and Fire")
A Golden Crown (22 May 2011) – co-executive producer , Writer (series of novels "A Song of Ice and Fire")
You Win or You Die (29 May 2011) – Writer (series of novels "A Song of Ice and Fire")
The Pointy End (5 June 2011) – Writer (series of novels "A Song of Ice and Fire") (written by)
Baelor (12 June 2011) – Writer (series of novels "A Song of Ice and Fire")
Fire and Blood (19 June 2011) – Writer (series of novels "A Song of Ice and Fire")
Episode #2.1 (15 April 2012) – co-executive producer
Now, being as Martin is helping write the episodes and is co-executive producing, I think he can make the series go however the hell he wants to since he wrote the orginal source material (some needs to change for tv obviously.
@Jenny
George is definitely a part of the series, but the nuts and bolts fall under the direction of the show runners. Martin shows as a producer and a writer on all 11 episodes more than likely as a sign of respect and some menutiae about how the Writers Guild works. The producer credit is likely a result of how the deal was signed (also, many staff writers for a series are credited as producers for the entire season. He was the credited writer on only one episode.
Not a biggy, but IMDB is very misleading when it comes to TV writing.
The excessive nudity does not prove a point. Martin allowed the nudity to make his work stand out against similar works (though most works that are similar are only in novel form, RIP. Jordan). I agreed with my fiance' to not watch the series even though it's my favorite book series, because of all the nudity (she gets a bit jealous ^^). I am sad to hear they had to skip some of the story of the novel, and put new characters in it. Hopefully the dvd versions will have deleted scenes.
Long live Martin, Death to Goodkind (your tv series sucks Richard!).
I totally agree! HBO was in a hurry to add as much useless T&A as they could they forgot to add more substance! It could be so much better, more like the books and the rating would still be HUGE without made up sex scenes to add more nakedness to the quota! Kinda takes away form the full enjoyment of the show!
i do agree with the fact there is some gratuitous nudity but calling the show sexiest prove that the writer didn't pay attention to the story at all this a dark world were woman are treated poorly by there male counterpart and many storyline revolve around theme struggling to be treated as equal or to achieve there dreams and ambition and to gain respect
Absolutely correct. Calling this show "sexist" is like calling the Indy 500 "about cars". It's a fuedal period, like our Middle Ages, where the strong carry the sword the power, where Kings rule and the weak die. What's even more funny is that they use the picture of the dragon…. well, never mind I don't want to spoil it.
i bet you all have no problem with porn though huh? is that sexist?
I have two straight male roommates–they both stated they love the show because of all it's female nudity. I love the show because of how closely they have stuck to a book series both my boyfriend and I adore. But lets be honest: quit trying to justify the nudity as a metaphor for female helplessness. They could imply and show them from the neck down if that were the case. The nudity is there because its HBO and they need a reason for people to pay the monthly fee to see something they can't see on basic cable. Who cares? If that's what the producer is doing, then fine. Just be honest about it. And the Hodor scene? I protest. It scarred me for life. Show me more shots of Kal Drogo (although now that he's dead, there isn't a single good looking guy on the show–now THATS sexist), but no more of the ick factor unless the chicks get ickier as well! :)
Nice tits, who cares!!!!!
I agree! Kahl drogo is simply amazing!! But we still have Snow… It’s not Kahl Drogo but he’s also nice and hot, don’t you think?
The problem with the show compared to the book is that in the show a lot of the sex scenes seem to be there just for the sake of being sexy. In the book all of the sex scenes had some kind of relevance to the story and the development of the characters.
I'm generally a fan of nudity, but every single scene with Roz was horrible — pornographic in style, stupid in content, distracting and embarrassing.
The Hodor penis scene last two seconds. Roz having ugly ugly sex in a porn audition lasted long horrible minutes. And yet you somehow call the two seconds gratuitous, not the long minutes of ugly sex. That speaks more of the penis-aversion some people have, than of what was really gratuitous. You can't stand two seconds of a penis, you can stand long ugly minutes of female nakedness.
The giant blood line immediately led to a discussion of the threat beyond the wall, and furthered the mythical underlinings of the universe. What the hell did Roz shoving her fist in another woman's butt lead to?
And don't you dare tell Petyr's exposition, for the ugly porn had nothing to do with what Petyr was saying.
There is nothing "ugly" about sex and I feel sorry that you have been conditioned to even think such a terrible thing.
I didn't say there's
I didn't say there's anything ugly about sex in general, and I'm annoyed, offended and FURIOUS that you pretend I did. I request an apology from you for deliberately misinterpreting me in this manner.
The series purposefully removed all the BEAUTIFUL sex scenes (Daenerys-Drogo, Ned-Kat), and also some of the NECESSARILY UGLY sex scenes (rape of Mirri) and almost completely only had sex scenes in which young women get sexually exploited or forced. And the irony is it didn't even show the one scene where the rape is crucial (that of Mirri) — because ofcourse you don't get to show old women being naked; you hate that.
If you thing that young women getting sexually coerced is beautiful the problem is with you, not with me.
Annoyed, offended and furious? A simple explanation regarding the poster's obvious misinterpretation would have sufficed. Perhaps if you would have toned down your original post rather than going so far over the top with your use of adjectives, such misunderstandings would be less frequent. Have a nice day!
You sir, need to calm the fuck down. You should never have posted that second reply and kept to the first – now you look like some raging retard with nothing else to do except get pissed off and make an ass of yourself online.
Good day faggot.
First off what the heel is "beautiful sex" & "Ugly sex"? sex is sex no more no less, now if you meant romantic sex & porn agraphic sex ok maybe but porno sex isn't in GoT. No ones dragging it out with constant moaning or the occasional random smile & a yes thrown in. Also you must think of the time period that this is set around that truely is how things were. If you have a problem with how people acted in the past then take it up with the dead ancestors of everyone. Also remember you do have a remote so feel free to change the channel at any time when you don't want to see this so called "ugly sex"
So how exactly does using the word faggot not make you look like an ass?
I have to say the phrase "Good day faggot." Made my day. Sometimes I love the internet.
"Good Day Faggot"? Now that was mature.
You got "FURIOUS" over that? And than request an apology? Dude are you new to the internet? Is this your first time posting on-line? Get your pompous head out of your ass.
don't feed the trolls
Haha your furious and want an apology? What a pompous douche
There is good SEX and there is BAD sex – Good sex is not just a climax – otherwise then rape might be good sex… good sex is the act of LOVE in a contract of Love – wed and sweet – BAD sex is sex in a selfish and base way sex sans commitment for vulgar pleasure and profit – like when lilttle finger is judging the sex skills of his girls – that was empty sad and dirty – it mad a good thing SEX a act just for money and casual etertainment or an act of skill – it is not that BTW hot GIRL please contact me 4 good sex – should have lots of gold and a noble birth or at least lots of breast and a noble bottom – we should wed 1st of course and then have lots of good sex (with my goodly penis)
Good for you Aris! You get the Oscar for the BEST COMEBACK COMMENTARY. But of course there will be no self-reflection before an egotistical reaction is forthcoming!
To be fair, Petyr's exposition is related to the sex scene. His whole speech is about how because he wasn't any good and fighting and waging war, but he had other skills and he would use them to f*** everyone in the metaphorical sense.
His speech describes him and foreshadows everything he was gonna do later, if you listened to it, then all that came later is no surprise. He lies, he makes everyone think that he is on their side, that he is their man, all for his own profit. This is exactly what he tells Roz to do, but in her field, which is prostitution. He tells her to make her customers feel as if they are somehow special, as if all the other people she slept with before were just customers and that she and her current customer have some kind of connection.
Now I know it seems like I might be over-analyzing, but, the thing to keep in mind, is that this scene never happened in the book and most of what we learn about Petyr is through the internal monologue of other characters. They had to present the info somehow and this is how they did it. I understand why you and others don't like it, but to be honest, I am a straight man and watching that scene, I barely paid attention to the women having sex and really listened to Petyr's soliloquy.
I was going to say that the ONLY nudity I found pointless was that scene – but you make a really, REALLY good point. I can see what they were trying to do. -nods- Hmmm. It may have been a bit over the top – but that's what these girls would be doing in their day to day lives, and since when has this story ever shied away from anything just because it's a bit 'gross' or taboo?
Thanks for making me think about it a little more :)
Littlefinger's soliloquy was the focus of that scene, not the sex between Ros and another prostitute. He wasn't so much as informing her on how to seduce a client as he was telling the audience about his relationship with Ned Stark, how he was manipulating him and how he'd 'seduced' him. The whole scene takes on another light when you view it in that manner, and its that way that I believe the writers intended it to be seen. The sex, to me, was just a bonus.
Pornographic opposed to erotic eh ? Erotism is purely esthetic by definition, it's euphemistic eye-candy. Pornography is an explicit depiction of sex. Speaking of terms of what is gratuitous or not, necessary or not, interesting or not, pornography actually has a point. Erotism is just supposed to be beautiful and arty (arty the way kitsch portraits of horses are arty), it's mostly just of bad taste. Pornography as a medium can offer more, sex exists, it's part of life and there's no need for a family-friendly version of it. Showing what's beautiful and forgetting what is ugly would not be telling a good story.
"You can’t stand two seconds of a penis, you can stand long ugly minutes of female nakedness."
gay.com
lol, I bet if it showed two seconds of labia you would say it need an XXX rating and is pornographic.
Society has such a double standard about showing women's genitals. Its ok and not graphic to show a penis and all its parts but god forbid they ever show more than a woman's pubic hair.
Silly puritan americans :-)
Nudity and sex shouldn't have to be "justified." Who cares if it serves the plot? People have sex. It's part of the human experience. If you are a person uncomfortable watching sex depicted on screen, watch something else. I don't see why people expect their sexual hangups to be everybody's hangups. Jesus Christ, America is such a sexually repressed country.
I'm not uncomfortable watching sex, I'm uncomfortable having a series pretend that I ought *like* watching a prostitute be forced to fist another prostitute, and that this is somehow a beautiful part of the human experience.
Once you explain to me why the show removed the *beautiful* sex scenes (Ned-Kat, Drogo-Daenerys) and the *necessarily ugly* sex scenes (Mirri getting raped), and had them *ALL* replaced with young beautiful women getting exploited, then I'll accept your argument that it's done because "sex is part of the human experience".
The show didn't show us sex as part of the human experience, it removed almost *all* the sex that wasn't the physical exploitation of young women. It removed the consentual parts of sex, it removed the beautiful parts of sex.
Whoever wrote the sex scenes in the series is someone who hates sex and wants to depict it as uglily as possible.
I doubt that the person who wrote the scenes hates sex and wants to depict it as ugly. I think that you will find that most viewers do not think the scenes were ugly, probably because most hetero men like to look at beautiful women naked.
The simple explanation is the best. HBO was throwing a bone to the people who expect a premium cable channel to include female nudity in their shows.
"probably because most hetero men like to look at beautiful women naked"
what about the hetero women watching this series? women should be given the same opportunity to watch identical scenes of men.
how would you hetero men like to have seen a man "fisting" another man?
men are just weird anyway – they slobber over that girl-on-girl shit.
but guess what? i don't think hetero women are into guy-on-guy action.
and the books fared well with the meaningful sex scenes minus the stupid ones.
Renly and Knight of Flowers much?
They couldn't have shown much more in that scene and not call itself porn.
I think it is fair to say the show does go over and above in it's nudity and sex scenes compared to the books. But sex sells, and more importantly it's cheap.
The reason they included these scenes and have taken out battles (Tyron's for example) was because of cost to film. They have their budgets and figured this is what people like anyway. I don't mind it, I've got the books for all the details anyway.
"Hetero women" get AMPLE opportunity to view naked men in mainstream movies and often tv shows on premium cable. I can name ONE mainstream movie that has shown the genitals of a female in the past ten years, I can name 15 that have shown male genitals in the past four or five years. For some reason breasts are ok but genitals are off limits in our society. And for some reason despite the STAGGERING disparity in showing men completely nude as compared to female breasts, women continue to drag out their old tired complaints about the objectification of women and their lost opportunity in seeing men naked. And yet strangely women, such as this writer in the LA Times and yourself, don't notice or comment on this. If women truly want equality its time you grow up and start being honest about this sort of stuff.
Start naming.
Top of my head? "Forgetting Sarah Marshall" and "Armed and Dangerous",
"prostitute be forced to fist another prostitute"
You do realise how stupid you sound right?? Prostitutes are selling their bodies and their actions to others. Hence if someone pays them to do it they are not forced.
They're still people. They're still allowed to say no. Assuming that prostitutes aren't allowed to decide what happens to them during a session is problematic, you may not have meant for it to sound this way, but saying because prostitutes are paid for their services, they can never be raped by a customer.
and that begs the question, if someone forces sex on a prostitute, is it rape, or theft?
This is a joke right?! Theft would be not to pay her for the "service" she procured, rape is just rape.
Aris,
you know little about how entertainment works and it shows. Your vernacular seems quite juvenile talking about just "ugly sex". The minutes of fisting was representative of what the speaker was doing to the nobles… He is a deeper character than most in the series and he was exerting the only power he really was allowed to show. The dialogue could serve as a template in how to manipulate politics and people with slight of hand. It is a much harder way then controlling politics today ( corporations use the Lanister method).
I agree with you with not showing the intimate nature of the relationship with Drago; the reason why they didn't take it any deeper was because it could have been more construed as porn. The sex before that point was to show how unprepared she was for the role of wife and lover. Sex was the one thing she could control and being advised how to do it as an equal gave her the strength to stand up to her brother. A long intimate sex scene would have been nice but people would have taken serious notice of that and could have been more controversy for the network. Showing the outward love accomplished that goal well enough; everyone could tell that their relationship became one of love.
The third thing you need to understand is that you don't depict rape on television. It will cost everyone involved millions in fines to the FCC. I believe you can't even say a commonly known colloquialism or direct name of a vagina, when speaking about rape or molestation. Their is a serious fine line their that is dangerous to cross. The main reason is it does turn some of the sickest individuals on. That is why they can only hint at it. So next time use the word gratuitous instead of ugly, start looking at symbolism and understand that our world is not that far off from what we see in "Game of Thrones".
Also there was one loving scene that started to take place and it was ending in what I was assuming was a blowjob. I paid careful attention to the dialogue as I did when the fisting was taken place. It was my second time through the series, it was my girlfriend who was utterly disgusted; I never even realized anything beyond shaving was happening just like I never realized it was a whole fist… I can't wait to watch that part again obviously I am not paying attention to the right things as you are.
Hey Farley, what are you talking about when you say "Rape can't be depicted on TV"? This is HBO. They can show whatever they want. In fact, in The Sopranos season 3, back in the year 2001, Dr. Melfi got raped by someone who attacked her on the staircase, and they showed the rape scene. It's HBO. Premium cable. The FCC can't say crap.
The FCC does not regulate cable television. Any cable television. Not just premium cable like HBO or Showtime, but -any- cable. They only regulate broadcast television. Censorship on cable channels is self-imposed to meet with viewer and advertiser expectations of acceptable content.
Tits and sex = WON'T SOMEBODY THINK OF THE CHILDREN/GOTTA BE JUSTIFIED!
Violence and throat ripping = MEH, SEEN WORSE.
America in a nutshell. Stupidly backwards and sexually repressed, even those who pretend to be liberally sexual. The big hint that they're still brainwashed by America's long standing puritan roots is the word "but".
Exactly. People who start a sentence "I'm no Puritan, but…" always go on to say something expressing their underlying Puritanical morality. Just like people who start a sentence by saying "I'm no racist, but…" always go on to say something outrageously racist.
Hear hear! Just think what the world would be like, if the attitude towards sex and violence were switched.
1) We would reach a higher understanding of our sexuality and wouldn't be so self-conscious about our bodies.
2)The world would be a more peaceful place.
3)Rape would decline drastically.
I would like to note, that all types of people should be allowed to be depicted nude in TV/movies not just the young and beautiful. People are people and as the old saying goes, "Don't judge a book by its cover".
Peace out
We didn't see the rape of Mirri which was crucial to the story — instead we had to see LittleFinger ask a prostitute to fist another prostitute; and somehow there exist people who defend *that* as necessary.
We didn't see Drogo and Daenerys having tender sex — the moment their sex became tender and loving, was the point that the series actually lost interest in depicting it to us.
Whoever wrote the sex scenes HATES SEX, and wants to depict only all the UGLY sex, and never any of the BEAUTIFUL sex,
I find it offensive you have decided what is "beautiful" sex and what is "ugly" sex. I won't argue with you over whether the scenes were gratuitous or needed, as you don't seem to give a rat's speckled behind what anyone else says since you're so determined to be right, but I will say that you are making an ass out of yourself. Out of all the comments here, you're the only one I want to slap.
And, for the record, I find your "beautiful" sex scenes as boring and generally pornographic feeling. I'm not here to watch two people in love have sex in a mutually beneficial way. To me, watching them have sex tells me no more than watching them react lovingly in a scene would. THOSE scenes feel gratuitous to me. Sure, it's because I find annoyance with stupid love scenes put in to make people like you feel all warm and fuzzy inside. I'm not saying I want to watch people be raped, or coerced into horrible sex acts, all the time, but unlike the love scenes that can be easily depicted elsewhere, there is a sort of all consuming destruction in those scenes that cannot be shown otherwise. Love is all encompassing and easy to see, but horror and destruction has only one point of impact, everything else is just aftermath.
This is all derived from a nonsense elevation of the female chest. Some how female chest = nudity, male chest = not.
The show far more male chest nudity than female chest nudity, and also more male full frontal nudity than female full frontal, yet it somehow is portrayed as "too much tits"
I find it ironic that these people crying foul about this being somehow discriminatory nudity are the ones creating an environment of inequality when it comes to gender nudity
I say if we only get to see breasts, they only get to see testicles.
Well said, why is there such a double standard?
1. I'm not offended by nudity but it's annoying when people just want to have tits for the sake of having tits in whatever form of media that isn't supposed to be porn
2. How was it negative? It's sex what was negative about it? Seriously though can someone explain it to me I may have missed the point of that.
As most have already stated the series is not making up gratuitous shots of tits simply to fill time, this is all source from the books. When hollywood start censoring the content of books then that is the time to complain. If you don’t like the nudity or sex then simply turn it off or fast forward thru your DVR, problem solved.
I for one am tired of people thinking they have the right to change books to suit what they see as "more appropriate".
it is hbo not cbs if you do not like it do not watch it or get cbs nbc or abc do the show good job hbo we pay for your channel so jerks like this can not tell us what we should watch .
There is a difference in nudism and por..graphy. Nudism believes in the freedom from the restrictions of clothing, Po.n is for sexu.l gratification. Get a whole nude attitude @ naturistmingle.com
Another thing is that it's an HBO/Premium show which means it was going to have some form of nudity regardless. The reason I say this is becasue well look at True Blood there's at least 1-3 sex scenes in one episode. Dexter is a show about a Serial Killer fitting into the world around him while pleasing his Dark Passenger by spilling the blood of other killers & yet there's been some sex & nudity there too. Basically my point is that if it's not on regular cable then you can bet that it will most likely host some for of nudity or over the top language at some point if not all the time.
Much ado about nothing. This shouldn't even be a debate at all. If you don't like it, then don't watch it plan and simple.
QFT.
I redouble [a] proxy, Somebody needs to get a life , starting with Mary Macnamara and some of the silly pre-pubescent commenters above ! No book adaptation is going to satisfy all the readers and fans. Sit back and enjoy it , or turn it off. There is a new book out and I have pre-ordered it ! Thank you HBO for the courage to work with the best , George RR Martin !
I doubt the nudity would have been an issue if there were more episodes used to delve further into the relationships between the Stark children (including their dire wolves) and contrast them with the Lannister spawn. For one thing, the scenes with nude actors would be less concentrated. In any event, most of the sex scenes were scenes in the book – and many others were edited out (specifically those involving Jaime/ Cersei, Ned/ Cat, and the wedding reception of Drogo and Dany).
I believe the content had as much to do with HBO picking up the series as did the writing.
Everyone is born naked. We're all NAKED much of the time. The human body is normal. Sex is normal. Humans having sex… NORMAL.
What is not normal are nutjobs who get upset by nudity or sex. The ludicrous religion based value judgements are representative of sick, unblanced minds. These are the same people who will watch a show full of people shooting other people dead but get upset the moment they see a breast. Get some perspective you lunatics.
why can't Aris have his opinion? all you talk about being open-minded, but according to your way of talking, open-minded means everyone must think and act like you. and for Jim Sane, I am not NAKED much of the time. In fact, I spend very ltitle of my time naked and i live in Socal where it's hot. but yet, i still wear something, or can't i do that? does wearing clothes make me repressed? I dont need sex to tell a story. and really, honestly, how often do any of you even have sex? and why is sex so important? i have two films total where there is sex in my dvd collection and they are both Brando flix. the rest are great flix that require no sex. i.e. saving private ryan, rocky, john hughes flix, akira kurosawa, some kevin smith flix (even thoug they talk about it), and the list goes on. those are all good flix, right? at least they are to me. let Aris think how he wants. the minute we start policing each others opinions and thoughts and feelings we might as well support Hitler. I don't even watch this show or tv at all cuz i don't need sex to be part of every waking piece of dialogue. if you are so obsessed with seeing nudity, it sounds like YOU guys are the ones who are repressed. there is an expression: those who know, don't talk. those who talk, don't know. I'm just sayin'. know what i'm sayin? THAT's what I'm sayin.
So are you purposefully avoiding a very awesome series like Game of Thrones specifically BECAUSE it has nudity. Isn't that just doing the same thing in reverse? If sex isn't that big a big deal, why go so far out of your way to avoid even seeing it? Not saying you have to seek it out, but why put automatic blinders on and avoid it at all costs.
hummm so then when you are getting busy in the bedroom you don't mind if we all watch? Because it's normal. Awesome let me know when you start to open your blinds or post on internet.
There is a HUGE difference in the way nudity is portrayed…. classy and in the theme of the content OR made up bullshit to add a bit of lesbian soft core porn to a show that WAS NEVER IN THE BOOK TO START WITH!
If you like looking at nude women then I guess Naked is normal; I would prefer to see more male nudity and I'm not talking bare butt. I want to see full frontal. I bet if that was on HBO it would be amazing how some of you posting how normal being naked is wouldn't like that a bit. Don't like looking at some other dudes naked package, unless your gay.
"I bet if that was on HBO it would be amazing how some of you posting how normal being naked is wouldn’t like that a bit."
Spartacus is an equal-opportunity-nudity show–and not "bare butt" at that. I've never heard of any complaints from male op-ed writers.
There is definitely a double standard but it's because they will show male full frontal nudity but they won't show any female genitals in any scene, and it's not just because they are more difficult to see – they are edited out. Female genitals are defined as pornography. Breasts are no big deal, you can see them on lots of beaches any time.
Ron but breasts are still a big deal, if they weren't then I could be bop around my town shirtless on a hot summer day right??
Starz has that, it's called Spartacus.
I don't see the nudity as being gratuitous at all. If you wanna talk about gratuitous nudity that has nothing to do with the source material, let's talk about True Blood. It's breasts and asses! We ALL have them.
uh, i'd just like to interject here and say that I, for one, do not have breasts.
thanks, that's all.
True Blood? True Blood is never gratuitous. There is always a point to the sex, either as a character or narrative. I've always admired the show for that. Source material? 'Source material' is a) really boring and b) has just as much sex.
People have to remember that HBO DID worry about the censoreship somehow by simply not casting a THIRTEEN YEARS OLD girl to be mounted by Khal Drogo.
Nowadays we call it disgusting, but back in history, all the girls used to marry at that young age.
To see prostitutes doing what they do…is not that shocking. Besides, GoT is based on a very traditional macho world where only a few women are able to speak their mind and grow as strong characters (Arya, Catelyn, Daenerys).
I have to admit I found alot of the sex pointless sex, just placed in the episode to make up its tit count. Not that I feel uncomfertable watching it but it to me diverted from the story, once you've seen one gritty prositute scene you have seen them all. I wonder which was more frequent, tit shots or the use of the word whore?
I find a lot of sex in real life pointless, and art imitates life….
So do ppl complain this much about True Blood? Considering the show is nothing but a vampire porno. Ppl getting worked up over Game of Thrones, and will continue to watch True Blood and Spartacus (Spartacus being 90% half naked men walking around, and women never complaining about it)
I'm sorry, but until Mary McNamara is willing to equally rail against all the dangling shlongs in "Spartacus," I simply can't take her umbrage seriously.
So…are the same people complaining about female nudity in this show (I guess no one is whining about Theon or Hodor flopping dongs about?) coming from the same people that are trying to push for more gays on TV? Funny that no one is complaining that the homosexual relationship between Renly and Loras that was not even alluded to by anything more than a line or two in the books didn't wig anyone out.
It's an adult show. If you don't like the boobs, close your eyes. Or turn it off and go watch Will and Grace reruns.
PS – Daeny is SMOKIN. Moar bewbs plox.
LMFAO!! I love reading these disputes, they're awesome. Its always the offended fans taking on the defensive fans <3
Yes. For the record, I enjoyed the show. Nudity, violence, bad guys realistically being the ones to come out on top and the one thing that truly made it great…..zombies. Little House on the Prairie it is not folks and thank the old gods for that.
and anyway, i thought 'game of thrones' was about people taking turns shatting, urinating and puking in them. it's childish and immature fodder. sex and violence, sax and violins. what's better? 6 to 5 and pick 'em. ants at a picnic.
This is one of the most amazing movie I have ever seen. I am loving it. The love scene of Drogo and Daenerys is my favourite… Drogo is so hot!
If you're that offended DON'T WATCH. There was a gay scene between Renly and Loras. You seen Theons penis. And Hodors. The entire khalasar, male and female are completely topless.
As for Roz, her sex scenes were to deliver intricate parts of the storyline. They weren't in the book, no, but then neither were the scenes she were depicting. They had to have SOME logical way of explaining the story.
The one scene over the top was the Roz/Other prostitute. But I think that was cleverly done. To be honest, I was more concentrating on the dialogue (straight male) than the scene.
In a world that can be savage, where we've seen a horse beheaded, a antler being skinned, a mans throat being ripped out, men being beheaded, people being killed, YOU HAVE NO BLOODY RIGHT TO complain about some tits. IF TITS AND VIOLENCE OFFEND YOU, TURN THE TV OFF, THIS SHOW IS NOT FOR YOU. IF YOU CAN'T STAND MATURE CONTENT, GO AWAY. The sex scenes DID add to the tv show. Wether you would prefer them done another way doesn't matter, all that matters is the sex scenes helped move the plot forward and explain stuff to viewers.
GO AWAY IF YOU CAN'T STAND MATURE CONTENT.
great show and if you have issue with the way its is the remote is right next to you tune off and let those enjoy it for what is do so
Just another Feminist at work complaining..
If she doesn't like it than don't watch it.
I agree with Aris, who simply makes the point that some of the sex scenes are gratuitous. How about this: all you who call the rest of us "repressed" go get some porn to satisfy your lack of real sex, while the rest of us simply give our opinion about how this series could have been improved…namely, by not making it into pseudo-porn at every turn!
That's why your "If you don't like it, don't watch" argument doesn't hold up…the series could have been better if the producers had been more creative and less appealing to the lowest-possible denominator. (BTW I love sex, but it's just so much better in private.)
OMG shut up you guys are gona fuck a a great show. If you dont like anything about this show go watch a cooking show or somthing
All nudity in film is gratituos, it's not as simple if you don't like nudity, don't watch, maybe I want to see what the story is like, as well as everyone else here who doesn't have a problem with exploitation and endorses nudity at the expense of decency, i'm unimpressed by hollywood directors who are so ugly the only ass they get is by exploitation, or look at me, i'm rich and charming but a bee sting will kill me, from the very start hollywood has used sex to exploit it's employees.
Personally, I never saw how nudity made one film better but if you can prove it to me then do it. I still want to enjoy all entertainment that is available, even though hollywood offers little value unless you like to see rich and priviledged actors dance around on the graves of working americans, and then say to someone like me, if you don't like it don't watch, this couldn't be more insulting. I know this is what your parents are teaching at places like the bohmian grove and billdegberg group, to sacrifice 'dull care' and why be moral if god is a stone owl, and sarificing people isn't real because the people sacrficied are only effigies of real humans, yah, nice value system hollywood.
go home..
Carl, you say that you never saw how nudity made one film better, to you that might be true, to me it might be true, but there is a large viewer base that it does make them better to. Since this is the case, and sex sells, hollywood isn't going to change, as their objective is to make money. That's why people say the "If you don't like it don't watch" line. Not watching it is the best way to tell hollywood that you want it changed. If everybody who didn't like it didn't watch any of the shows that have it the income would go down, and that would make them change it.
As to whether it is gratuitous or not, that is open to debate. I feel that most of it is gratuitous, that they could have progressed the story line just as well (including demonstrating the position of women in the medieval/fantasy world that GoT is set in) with less on screen nudity and more implied nudity. For example, the scene where Daenerys is basically a piece of cattle, could have been served just as well with a brief glimpse of her, not even necessarily showing anything, but with some cover that is than later seen away from her, and showing her brother walking and examining her talking about her, without actually showing her.
Most of the other nudity scenes could be done in similar ways, but, than the people who pay and want to see nudity scenes would be dissapointed and some wouldn't watch, and it would cost HBO money, so they will never do things that way.
I watched the series, really enjoyed it and have had several female friends recommend I read the books. I'm a woman. I thought the scene where the two girls were going at it while Littlefinger talked was over the top, with no apparent purpose than to please the male fan base. What I do find sexist is that the one thing that you consider pointless is one of the rare instances of male nudity. It's a good thing GoT has a good storyline, I'll have to see where it goes from here. For me, nudity and profanity often make up for a good storyline or vocabulary. If nudity shows the powerlessness of women, I'm not sure I want to keep watching now.
Only in USA is nudity an issue, You can kill people, rape children, mass murder a hole city, but when it comes to nudity …?
Weird people!
"Breasts or tits: if it serves the story, what's it really matter?"
Well, even if it doesn't serve the story what does it matter? Are we still offended by genitalia? Does a show make or break based on the amount of skin? I think people will tolerate whatever their psyche can take during TV shows or movies. If people are offended by violence, they will tune out or turn it off. But I don't think people watch these shows without having some idea of the content.
Mary McNamara hasn't watched Spartacus yet… Or, she would REALLY have a Field day!!! Woot!
I agree with John. Nudity is an expression & often used to make a point in this show.
Boogaboo, or others. If you feel less sex and nudity would have improved the show, I feel the opposite. Not that I care too much if someone is naked or if they are fucking – But I want HBO to be able to stay faithful to the book. There is a lot of violence, profanity, sex and nudity in A Game of Thrones and beyond in A Song of Ice and Fire (real series name) just as there is in real life.
Yeah, they can "imply" sex, tone it down, they can also do that with all the violence. But then it just becomes some watered down version of game of thrones, for complainers, where all the little flowers and daises can grow. Heck, reading the scenes in the novel is much more gritty than being exposed to it on camera.
This show, and A Game of Thrones in general is not sexist in what they've shown, they've not tried to be deliberately sexist and it doesn't come off that way. However, I will admit this is a world where woman are not really equal to men. They play a different part in the story. It's very much based upon our own Medieval society.
Fact of the matter is, this is a mature show, with mature content. If something is offending you, perhaps the show is not for you. I like this show (and moreso the novels, been into the books for 5+ years now) BECAUSE it can get gritty, with its politics, violence, sex, cultures.
I have to say I wholeheartedly agree.
As for the books, George R R Martin has had me hooked since the first page of A Game of Thrones, all the way through A Song of Ice and Fire to A Dance with Dragons.
One of the best things I have read, it has everything.
If anything we should just be happy that the show made alot more fans that have gone on to read the books.
I just think the fucking show is gay as fucking hell, and should be cancelled. That simple.
Word.
"the prostitute Ros had a much inflated role on television than in the books"
oh you mean like the fact that she actually existed in the show?
I was gonna mention Roz not even being in the books, but it appears that already got covered.
Oh why not, it's easier than any of them having talent.
Bi female here… I actually enjoyed that damned Ros/Petyr monologue scene. Although the first time i watched it the women distracted me so much, i forgot to listen to Petyr. So when he did F everybody in the end, i was a little lost. After rewatching the season i realized i'd missed him telling us exactly what he had in store. So from a person who hasn't read the books' point of view, the scene made the season turn out quite surprising. lol. And btw, i absolutely loved Spartacus, and not because of all the nude men scenes, but because the nudity was true to the era of the story/show. Same with GoT. Hell, if they had a 13 year old marry Drogo, i would NOT have been offended. It's how the world was once.
"You are the only person in your world."
The reason Mary McNamara finds any of the nudity or sex gratuitous is because she's uncomfortable with her own nudity and/or participation in sex. The world occurs for us as we perceive it. If you see white people and black people, then you're more likely to have racist points of view (even if you don't voice it out loud). If you think nudity is a "sin", then you are afraid of your own body. The more defensive you get reading what I'm saying here, the more true those kinds of things are about you.
The writers of the TV show had the author of the books on hand to advise everything they decided to adapt, update, or modify. Listening to interviews with George RR Martin, he approves of everything they've done to bring the book to the small screen. So if a viewer has a problem with the way something was shown, good luck arguing with the story's creator.
I personally didn't find any of the nudity or sex (or violence) gratuitous. I am capable of watching a show and understanding both the story and the setting. This is a very Medieval show; anyone who has read anything about real human history knows that women were seen as objects until only just recently and for many hundreds of years, sex was seen as something you'd better only even think of doing for procreation. In such a primitive time & place, things like war and oppression are commonplace.
I say "accept the story as it is" or watch something else. Nobody is forcing you to watch and you aren't going to have any more or less a successful life if you don't have Game of Thrones in it. Responsible, mature adults know the show is made for responsible, mature adults. Anyone else is ill-equipped to handle watching in the first place.
everyone needs to grow the fuck up.
HBO does do a lot of that, and for the record, My Wife asked me to Get HBO so she could watch Boardwalk Empire, because she is a native of NJ and an Architectural Historian of that time period.
Let the record show — HBO: we canceled our subscription after the season was over…. and have no plans to go back — because: while the story was great, The nudity wasn't really nessicary to the story…..and if edited out the whole season would only be about an hour and a half long.
read the books, then watch the tv series. A lot more sex in the books. You cancelled HBO cause you're a cheap deuche and can't admit it, so you find an excuse for it. I bet if you see your wife showering that would bee unnecesary nudity for you. Moron
The series is brilliant and the Khaleesi is portrayed by a gorgeous actress.
Women have breasts and a vagina, guys have dicks.
Anybody criticizing this show because peoples naked bodies are shown should probably go see a shrink.
The poster mentioning UGLY sex as opposed to BEAUTIFUL sex from the books (Drogo-Daenerys, etc.) must not remember, that Dany was 13 at the time…
I feel like people are forgetting this is HBO. And everyone here is doing exactly what HBO wants, which is talking about the show. Why did they show two prostitutes fisting each other in stead of a beautiful sex scene between two people who love each other? Because you can see beautiful sex scenes in almost every show and movie out there. HBO has to boundaries, HBO is ORIGINAL, so sometimes you're going to see some weird shit.
And secondly, this is old school mideaval times! Women didn't have equal rights, they got raped and used by men all the time. So if this is bothering you, maybe you shouldn't be watching it. Stick to romantic comedies, and leave HBO for people who like to think out of the box.
Its just nudity. Its the human body there are only two types and we have have seen it before. Grow up people. Personally I think its disgusting that our society accepts graphic violence more easily than a man or woman in the nude, or two people having sex. If you don't like it, then don't watch it, and quit throwing your personal morals in my face.
It must be remembered that this is a fantasy set in a Medieval world. Did women hold power in our medieval period? Were they treated horrifically at times, as just pleasure stops others? The women survive by the means they know best and what is available to them. The men too use what they have, obviously Littlefinger is no physical warrior but his craftiness cannot be denied. The men survive with whatever prowess they have, the women through their own wiles! The story, whether written or on film, is one fraught with the virtues and evils of mankind … to be enjoyed for it's realism and fantastical events.
I think that the point is that it is just another TV show that shows naked women, but does not show naked men. I agree that in some cases it is relevant to the storey, but also that it seems to be acceptable to show female nudity, but not male nudity. Same with shows such as True blood. There are naked women left right and centre, but not male nudity. The only TV show that I have seen that showed full frontal nudity of both men and women was in Spartacus and I give them ups for that. Still much more female than male, but it's a start. I do believe that in Game of Thrones in some cases it is relevant, but not always. It just seems increasingly acceptably to show more and more naked females, but never males.
my two cense.
Uh, Theon (Alfie Allen), Hodor (Kristian Nairn), AND Dany's would-be assassin (I have no idea) all go full frontal in GoT. And they're all male…
I personaly loved the show as well as the books. The nudity didn't bother me, there are worst HBO shows that show nudity for no reason. True Blood, Eastbound & down, entourage..etc, I believe that Game of Thrones has more relevant nudity then most! Done more tasteful than alot, but there does seem to more nudity in females then ever before. I guess its becoming more acceptably but doesn't mean the shows should focus of that, without a good story would be better off watching porn. So I hope writers will focus more on the story in the future season. I alot was let out that was fairly important. But I personaly loved the last scene of the season her nudity in that scene just made it more powerful & shocking.
Why can't nudity be portrayed without it being a gimmick? No one attacks movies with strippers that never doff their clothing. If it's a part of the story, that's all it is. If you don't like nudity, don't watch the show- don't try to stifle storytelling with prudery. Nobody seems upset that the average American has seen three hundred thousand acts of violence by age eighteen, why do we care so much about mammalia?
It is very simple.
This is not about content that's mature or otherwise. If it's sinful, then it's sinful. Wrong = wrong. Age and maturity don't figure into the equation.
None of it is necessary for good story-telling.
Sinful is a generic undefinable term. It can be (and has been) applied to anything someone doesn't like..nudity, homosexuality, other races. It's up there with normal, deviant, and impossible as the most useless words ever created.
there was way to much nudity. boobs are one thing but the whore scene with the fisting went on forever. i finally ff that whole scene. if i want porn ill watch porn but i wanted a tv show with action and yes sex is fine and boobs are fine but that scene was stupid and did nothing but serve for some loser to stay home and jerk off. lol
ROFL at all the debate over boobs.
Did anyone notice the amount of heads being chopped off or kids being flung out of windows?
Our western culture has a lot of shit backwards on what it decides to get offended over.
I'd rather watch porn. No pretense, no pesky story line and all the ugly and beautiful sex I can stand.
Just keep trollin people. :)
There's Fisting on this show? Man I gotta get caught Up!!
<>
No, Niaru, on the contrary. YOU = WRONG.
You clearly failed to read the series this is based off of. The book has WAY more sex, rape, etc. than the screen adaptation. It has been considerably toned down for the HBO show overall.
It is necessary to the story because the writer WROTE IT that way. Which is his decision, not yours. Sorry if you are mad you don't have control over what George R.R. Martin wrote – a world that is amazing, fantastic, and wondrous – and yes – filled with graphic violence and sex of every kind, depraved to beautiful.
Much like our own world was. And still is. The difference is, we have the internet, and people like you who try to teach us what is "appropriate" for us when you clearly don't care about or even enjoy the book this series is based off of.
When you stop thumping your bible, maybe you should read it:
"judge not, lest ye be judged"
And to the folks who like this series or the books it's based off of:
Don't spend too much time debating with these morons. It really is just the same as trying to get a Republican to care about other people. It will never happen.
The breasts are all necessary to the story, but the penis had no purpose? Come on, now. And he reads "Playboy" for the articles too, right? Does he mean to say that not ONE of the poignant scenes named would have been as relevant without a pair of bare breasts in the mix? The breasts are there because fanboys dig them, and "Thrones" is fanboy ambrosia. This is ridiculous.
when…. when are we going to move beyond tits as an object of worship? they're for babies, not us. The beauty of a woman's body is the totality of it, breasts, face, eyes, hair, nose, ass (of course) legs, etc…
Who gives a fuck. We all have naked bodies underneath these clothes. Get over it, grow up. Nudity or not, Game of Thrones is a truly awesome piece of visual storytelling, and marks a peak in the current crop of quality TV entertainment that has overtaken Hollywood. Any argument about nudity stems from religious dogmatic bullshit. I could care less because I live in the real world and I'm not freaked out by seeing some flesh.
I thought that the TV show gave a great impression on the times and the social society that the tv series is set in. It is very much 'in your face' yet it is what those times were, which it depicts perfectly.
GREAT TV SHOW
if u dont like dont watch it
I love the show because of it's setting and so on. One thing I would like to note on the subject of nudity – My girlfriend has been upset with me for watching this show because it has nudity which she thinks is pornographic. She thinks I'm only watching it for the boobs.
I love the boobs, but I'd watch it even if it didn't have boobs.
SO I can't watch the show until they stop the nudity. HBO, please tone it down.
in my oppinion they made the best TV show ever – really …
so real – i fucking hate censorship – in any kind (acording to brutal murders , or to nudity of any kind).
so good work guys – do more like it (just try to put more massive scenes (battles) ) – other thinks – PERFECT!
(like Spartacus TV show – awesome… (no censorship also))
Agreed, censorship sucks. It simply reinforces denial and delusion.
I didnt read any of your dumb comments or your dumb article and I havnt watched this dumb show and I probably wont. The tits sell. We've been there, medieval tv shows typically tank, and viewers need something to distract them from the gaudy language and over zealous acting. Look at us! We are promoting this television series because the producers were smart enough to throw a good pair of cans on screen. Simple.
pervasive and gratuitous "porn"? on TV?!?! just goes to show that there is no innocence left in this world
i think the game of throens is a really cool guy. eh fights teh wars and dosnt afraid of anything
Guys, stop whining. If you don't like the scenes with naked people just stop watch the damn show or be quiet about it. I must say that only little kids would care if there were naked people in it or not.
I wasn't offended by that scene with Ros and the other prostitute I forget the name of, but I did think it was stupid. As a girl who looked forward to every episode it annoyed me that the writers would pander to guys so much. It felt like the show was assuming I was a sex-depraved nerd who would lap it up. I thought they were above that. (As opposed to, say, a video game like Soul Caliber where I like seeing giant boobs everywhere, because that's just part of what it is and it's not aspiring to be anything more). Any justification for the random prostitute fisting just comes across as over-analytical and desperate whining from said sex-depraved nerds…. sorry.
If they have some sort of nudity quota, they could use it in a way that furthers the story and setting. I.e. prostitutes walking around naked and guys in taverns groping servants = cool. Ros squealing like she's just discovered her vagina = 'Great, how am I going to recommend this show to my dad now?'
I like sex, though.
Mary McNamara and other who don't like it can switch the channel to something else and shutup. If you miss the point of it then you don't need to say anything. It's not all about the "tits and ass" some of it has a point or adds to the scene. So I think it was just fine as it was. Oh and since she was bitching about the final scene.. hello she cannot be harmed by fire but that does not mean her clothing won't burn. get a grip or stop watching jeez.
Games of thrones has a lot of nudity but for some reason people forget that it's not only women. In the scenes where people are having sex is there not a man there also? How stupid could you be? I guaruntee if you watch the shows again you will see more male skin than female. Women may show much of their bodies but not that often and when it happens they are side by side with men. Also for much of the series an entire race of people(men and women) wear nothing but loin clothes.
Some scenes like the prostitute audition were over the top and I would have liked it cut down or taken out but to complain about sexism is ridiculous. I watched this series every weekend with my family (My mom and stepdad, fiance and sister). And it was not a problem for any of us mature adults. Some scenes were important and some scenes were overstated but all of it is part of a compelling story and that is exactly why I will tune in (every episode) when the new season starts. Obviously the story is so good that the idiot Mary whatever was forced to make it through the entire first season regardless of it's "sexist stance".
P.S. The end of the episode that "shows breasts in a beautiful way" like that uptight idiot called it didn't even show breasts. She was naked and you could parts of her body but not her breasts or other sensative areas. Obviously she didn't watch that closely.
Drogon (I think it was) was suckling at her breast, just like in the books. They were very visible.
I definitely don't have an issue with the nudity on HBO, I've come to expect it. It's also true to the books. While I can imagine it offends some people it clearly draws in audiences. "In fact, the only gratuity I can really recall is the Hodor penis scene" Oh let me die laughing! Look ….don't be a hypocrite. If there's; every part of a womans body, prostitutes who apparently love getting direction to have sex with each other, forced sex, and rampant nudity and objectification…then get over the lone penis. Don't pretend to be open minded and liberated if you feel threatened as soon as a guy is objectified…thats a cowards stance.
Exactly. Totally agree!
I saw at least three maybe for penises too, so it's not all just women nudity. And what's so wrong with nudity. It's a body. We all have one, whether it's boobs and a vagina or with a penis. People are too damn sensitive. STFU!
Aris, you are entitled to your views on the subject, thats ok. Its nice how your all-knowing-ness has determined what is "ugly" or "beautiful" when it comes to sex. Thank you for your boundless wisdom! You know, in fantasy or medieval/dark age based stories, lots of sex happened. Rough sex, forced sex, tender sex….as well as many perversions. Sex happens, it makes the series more earthy and real. Suck it up Susan! (Aris),and take a fucking chill pill bro, before that vein in your head explodes…lol
Anyone offended by nudity at all is a moron and you are holding humanity back by focusing on inconsequential trivialities like "the body exists." Blah, blah, blah exploitation, blah, blah, blah, gratuitousness, blah, blah, blah, sexism. Stoppit, you're embarrassing.
It's funny how people are freaking out about the Ros scene that doesn't even show any female genitalia, and yet are fine with Tywin gutting a deer, showing blood, muscle and ripped off skin. Both things weren't needed, but they helped paint a better picture of the characters and the world.
Wait. Is everyone else missing the fact that McNamara's original argument was that female breasts are OK sometimes, but not OK other times?
I honestly feel like that's a bit sexist in itself. Personally, I don't think bare female breasts should be any more shocking than bare male breasts – in any context. I hope that someday we won't even consider chests as nudity anymore.
I do agree with her assertion, though, that it is sexist that there are seemingly no male prostitutes in the series. And I can even see her point about the "use" of nudity being imbalanced. However, if we flip the coin, would anyone care if a TV show was full of shirtless and sexual (or even "decorative") men, but the women all kept their bras/shirts on? Doubtful. And in case you missed my point, that's not okay.
If people still can't get over the fact that women have tits, they really have some mental issues. Nudity is NOT sexist. First off, McNamara must not have studied any history, or realized that Game of Thrones is set in a FANTASY world that doesn't exist. In ancient times, humans existed in a patriarchal society. Prostitution is the oldest profession. It's not like that now, so move on.
Who care if there are boobs everywhere? I'm a straight woman, and was not bothered by it one bit. Because I am not an idiot like McNamara, and I don't seek out sexism in every little thing. The actresses showing their bodies were not forced to do it, where they? No. If you don't want to see the tits, change the channel. No one is making you watch it.
McNamara complains that tits are what you see in a strip club, blah blah… Okay… We saw tits in a BROTHEL!
I think McNamara's real problem is that she is uncomfortable with her body, and can't handle a nice looking pair of tits. Also, if there WERE male nudity, and she saw a bunch of cocks on screen, she would pitch a holy bitch fit about that too. We can't have anything nice anymore. Everything is sexist, racist, or offensive. If something bothers me that much, I don't watch/read it. Plain and simple. Grow the fuck up.
i had to skip a bunch of shit and just post.
How about… it was a good show, much better then the other crap we see on tv today.
some people on here care WAY TOO MUCH about such stupid stupid stupid things. If you people put half this energy into careing about real world issues, the world wouldnt be going down the shitter. LOL seriously, it is ppl like you who fill their lives with gossip that are the problem, enjoy the show or dont… but to go into a debate about it. my god, you are all a bunch of losers.
I love this series I think it creates a world and a story that is compelling to watch. To just concentrate on the nudity whether you agree with in or not is selling the show and the books short. I don't understand why people are getting so heated about this issue. If you don't like it then don't watch it simple as that. There is an off button on the TV for a reason!
I agree, as a fanboy it is an amoral universe.
But for crying out loud. its HBO!
Simply weak. I watched the show with my father when I was seventeen! WHEN I WAS STILL IN HIGH SCHOOL! So I see nothing wrong about it. Sure, it makes him feel awkward watching the sex scenes with me, but I make it through. Unlike True Blood, which has so much tits flying around it could poke an eye out! *snorts* But I rather like the last episode of season one and can't wait to see more.
The sex was your typical HBO way of getting the crowd of men or women who like to have romance in their fantasy fiction. Romance Book readers
They want the geek audience as well by basing upon this unique fiction.
HBO is clever, the bastards.
Bunch of fuckin' feminists bitching as usual is all this is…. If you've read the books… you know there's tons of sex, tits, and nudity… the show is based on a medieval fantasy setting… in medieval times things were different. Men treated women as subservient. All Game of Thrones is doing is accurately portraying the books and the fictional setting created theirin. If you don't like nudity, sex, tits…. DONT WATCH THE SHOW and stop your useless bitching… I'm sure there are far more worthy causes to bitch about… It's HBO what do you expect… it isn't Fox or CBS… it's a station you have to subscribe to because there is not censorship like on ordinary channels… suck it up buttercups
you're an idiot, and using your screen name as one of the most interesting characters of the books is a disgrace. i'm sure you're still under the mentality that feminists are a bunch of bra burning, baby eating, man haters, hm?
i'm a woman, and i love sex. what i don't love is the sexist stance this show has taken. yes, the books accurately depict the time period and how women were treated, yes there were prostitutes, and yes SOME of the sex scenes are directly from the books. BUT, they sensationalize sexual violence AS WELL AS adding in pointless sex scenes and tit shots. at the end of the book, dany is naked, yes, but also completely BALD. did they do that in the show? no. why? because people identify long hair with women and sexuality, but god forbid they follow that little accuracy because the lack of hair makes her less feminine, therefore less sexy.
educate yourself on the inaccuracies of the translation of book to visual media, as well as thinking a little more critically about using nudity in the media. more often than not, it is always done at the expense of women.
Damn Straight!!!
I'm so sick of these revisionist feminists trying to make everything, regardless of it's time period, watered down and p.c. That's just how things were back then. Things were a lot more patriarchal. Yes I know it's a fantasy series but it's based loosely around the middle ages. Queens were NOT allowed the throne, ONLY male heirs. That's just how it was. Women couldn't own property, in a lot of cases they were considered as being property. Even given that, Game of Thrones doesn't present it's imagery in a derogatory way, just a matter of fact one. Looking at it objectively you cringe at the images and think, "Wow, women had it bad back then." But if you sterilize and b.s. it, that whole meaning gets lost.
you'd be surprised at how many of us "revisionist" feminists loved the books, then watched the show and enjoyed it. i'm not asking anyone to water it down, i'm asking that we stop sensationalizing sexual violence. they also need to follow the freaking storyline, and stop adding in filler roz scenes. they don't have near as many accurate love making scenes that were actually in the book, and instead replace it with the most idiotic back alley porn shit. i love sex! i love the male AND female body. i'm just sick of it always being at our expense. it takes two people to have sex, therefore two people to be naked, and more often than not, you only see the women.
game of thrones, the HBO version, sexualizes women to entertain men. the pseudo lesbian scene in the earlier episodes between dany and one of her handmaids never happened in the book, they hyped it up and sexualized it for the show. another element to draw in male viewers, a little girl-on-girl action, that NEVER existed to the extent it was shown.
The real problem is that sexist stories, like these from George R R Martin are the only ones that get published in the first place, and redone over an over. Seeing as how it's fantasy, think about why there is never any sexism against men featured as a matter of fact? No points for using time period, original works etc. It's FANTASY, but somehow that fantasy never has enough imagination to make women actual people. Funny how that works.
HBO is allowing the writers to follow the books. Would you rather have a sanitized version like Donna Reed's character, "From here to eternity", who was change from a prostitute, to a hostess who resembled a noviciate, about as far removed from the book as possible.
If it really bothers you that much, you can always watch something else. This is a free country, after all.
Its just a Means of Entertainment. Just because it bothers you doesn't mean everyone around you is having the same negative effect. If you don't like it don't watch it. Ratings make it stay. Enjoy what you love and pay no mind to what you don't. The scenes are overly glorified by bringing them up for debate moreover then just letting it come and go. I've never watched the show but the anger people it has provoked has intrigued me. God bless those who believe and best wishes to those who don't.
Misplaced word "People"
We didn't all read the books when the show aired and most people never will. I would like to think that "good" writers at least supervise the transformation of their work to film. As for the nudity, I think the only reason someone would be uncomfortable is if they felt the human form was revolting. I suspect that they never take showers or never truly get naked since seeing a naked body offends them. I say add more and show penetration just to weed out the immature audience who can't handle a couple of tits in their face.
This is stupid. They show more male nudity than female, double standard crap.
A lot of people saying 'if you don't like it don't watch'. But I want to watch! I want to see a TV show based on one of my favorite books. What I don't want to watch is pointless and retarted cheap ass sex and nudity just because it may attract some horny people and because HBO can. Yes there is a lot of it in the book but I think Martin's story desrved a little more respect, it is a classic and should be shown as one. Reading about nudity is not the same as watching it in your living room. I think that some scenes should have been made as they were like those with Dany, but the scenes with Roz are stupid and have very little to do with the story. It really looks like they have put those scenes in to please people who like seeing naked chicks but don't much care about the book. And come on do I really need to watch a guy shaving another guy for 10min? What the hell does that have to do with the story? It is barely mentioned in the book.
Well then wait for the dubbed version a year from now, or are we all supposed to submit to the minority. If it was so offensive to the majority the show wouldn't be as popular.
Ros didn't exist in the books. She was created for the TV series.
HBO throws nudity into its shows because they can, whether it serves a purpose or is gratuitous. Oz featured a lot of male nudity. Should this L.A. Times critic then not be making accusations of it being "lazy and homoerotic"?
Why is Mary McNamara so offended by a fabulous series on HBO? Why not attack those Victoria Secret commercials on network television, that appear without warning while children are present and watching. Where is her moral outrage, bras and skimpy panties and strutting models are okay?
Maybe Mary needs to recalibrate her moral compass.
Mary's just mad because these producers have more talent and vision. She wants to bring everyone down to her level, her little world. Sometimes these types like to play mother to others outside their circle too. It's nice to be able to make your own decisions in life, it's too bad some people don't think you should be able to.
I think people should start writing articles about how we are going to bring business back from China and start creating jobs over here again, than worring about breasts on a pay perview show.
It's so tiring listening to critics whine about nudity, if you don't like it don't watch the dam show. Nudity is everywhere these days, I mean any 12 year old kid that can type sex can find porn on the web, why not complain about that? I'm a big fan of the show, it's nice to actually see nudity being shown for what it was in that time. If it was up to these critics everything we watched would be rated G or PG13.
Seriously? Lazy? Sexist? Look, I have been waiting for this book to be translated to some form of screen medium, big or little (and let's face it, HBO is the only real choice to do this) for YEARS!!!!! It has copious amounts of nudity and sex, and violence too (interesting that the particularly gruesome fate Viserys meets doesn't bother the writer), and much much more to come. While some of it being added is unnecessary, in that they were not originally part of the story, it does not mean it is not there without a point as stated by this editorial's author.
Plus, it's F'ing HBO. So what if it has tits? Nudity, sex, adult language, and graphic violence: that's what we paid for!!!!
by the by, I'm a chick. Just saying. :)
Ros' scenes were really stupid. Hodor's dick I could live without, along with Theon's.. Just like WTF? The show cut out important scenes (like Ned and his wife—why are they not "hot" enough ?) I think that is way more important since it brings about that Rickon jerk later. There was a lot of tacky titty showing in this programing. Granted though, it wasn't as horrid and stupid as Rome, which had a great plot but all the sex destroyed the show and made it almost unwatchable in parts (i fast forwarded). :/. Just tactless. I feel like they put it in to get more viewers, not to enhance the plot at all.
I think that people complain about nothing way too much. It's the right of those women to show any part of their bodies that they feel the need to. It's their rights as human beings. If those actresses are comfortable with showing their skin to an international audience, what right is it of McNamara's to tell them that they're wrong, or that the show is sexist? That whole 'I Am Woman Hear Me Roar' crap is dead. Let it go.
P.S: Its just a fucking SHOW. quit crying about every little thing that offends you.
Much of the nudity and the scenes with prostitutes is unnecessary and clearly there only for the pleasure of the male viewer and NOT to enhance the plot or historical accuracy of the show. (Come on it's a fantasy, for f&^k sake! Yeah, it's really trying to be historically accurate!) If the writers really wanted to show the way things actually were (and still are today, btw) they would not have depicted the prostitutes as all being "happy" and enjoying what they are doing. Women were forced into prostitution because of economic oppression plain and simple. It was the case then and is still the case today. I think women like Mary McNamara complain because it would be nice if someday someone would produce a popular show that doesn't objectify women.
P.S. @ ShokDaMunkee
The whole 'I Am Woman Hear Me Roar' crap is NOT dead. McNamara's article and my conversations with other women about the show are proof of that.
If it bothers you…don't watch it.
I interpret one of the themes of a Song of Ice and Fire series is female empowerment, their influence over men and their struggle for equality with men (eg. Daenerys, Cersei, Melisandre, Margaery Tyrell, Asha Greyjoy and of course, Arya)
But thats lame. all i wanted was some historical tv show. And what get? porn. If i wanted porn i could watch porn channel, but i wanted some good old action with swords, blood, crossbows, etc. And what can watch? nothing. Spartans – porn, Borgias – porn, Tudors – soft porn, Camelot – porn, wtf.
lol… "titular game"
There are tits in Thrones?! Cool got to check it out now :p Europe rules!
Showtime and HBO show way more full frontal nude males than females, not even close! And Spartacus is not an equal opportunity nudity show! They cover the female genital area with a pubic wig called a merkin. On Spartacus and other HBO/SHOWTIME shows we get to see the males genitals, but never the females. How is that equal? Showtime and HBO Showtime claim to be willing to break new ground. They show the most graphic violence and male nudity imaginable. But, if a woman gets nude they cry foul and censor the vagina with a genital wig! Really? Showtime/HBO have a double standard when it comes to full frontal nudity. Always willing to show a peniis, but NEVER a vag!na! They just keep showing the same old tired female breast shots or very rarely a lame censored with fake hair bush shot. And for all those females who want to say that Hollywood has been showing breasts forever, well breasts are in no way equal to showing genitals. Thank god for internet porn, or young males would never know what a vagina looks like!
omg
its a racy show. don't watch it if ur offended. the violence is worse than the sex…
Dude, racy? lol. How old are you? I have seen and loved much more racy/raunchy stuff than this show. How could GoT or Spartacus be so racy and cutting edge when they are so scared to show a female genitals? lol. If you are offended by FULL female nudity keep it to yourself. I don't try to censor the FULL male nudity that you love so much.
Not true dude! Not from a straight male point of view anyway! The heterosexual sex is much worse (as in boring) than the (great) violence. lol, Racy? Really? How old are you? This show is no more racy than a lot of other shows on pay TV, internet or the the movies. Especially not when it comes to the very safe and censored female nudity. Boring! The violence is great, but the nude female shots are boring, tired and PG rated. The male nudity is R rated and the female nudity is PG. Racy? Really? I'm not offended at all about the (great) R-rated violence or the (lame censored)sex. I also don't want the male nudity to end. A lot of us heterosexual males just want to see some TRUE uncensored full frontal female nudity! Not this "keep it in the shadows or cover it up" politically correct female nudity mentality of HBO. Almost nothing but PG rated breast shots on this show and Spartacus. Peniis vs breast? Not a equal trade! What I don't understand is that they show the most graphic (great) violence and full uncensored male nudity, but they censor the vagiina? Why should only women and gay males get to see the true full monty and us straight males only get to see basically topless females (or sometimes her rear)? Fair is fair? Right? I pay a ton lettuce for HBO and I just want to be treated fairly. This is the year 2012, not the 1950's! My generation is very comfortable with FULL (vulva) female nudity. Dude take a look, the peniis AND vagiina is all over the internet for free, why not on "cutting edge" graphic and over the top raunchy cable shows like Spartacus or GoT? Fight all censorship!
I love boobs. I love them more when I'm watching a bad ass show that shows them. I get the best of both worlds.
whats the big deal its fantasy and why is it that women are always trying to change what guys like to watch. guys like breast, nudity, fighting. hell the nudity is whats make to talking parts bearable. u want touchy feely artsy go watch reruns of sex in the city
"That's not to forget that this is a show about an amoral fantasy world, where women are generally excluded from positions of power." … In Westeros, maybe… but in other places – beyond the Wall in particular, where women are equal among the Free Folk, and also in Dorne, Braavos, Mereen, etc. they sing a different tune :) Westeros is based largely on medieval Europe, where women were treated almost exactly the same way unless they were born into royalty or nobility, and even then were rarely able to participate in the military and were "encouraged" to marry so their husbands could take over.
I have never seen a movie that has been better by showing nudity. It is simply there for money like everything else in this world. We have an uncensored internet that can show you all the nudity you want. Can't we just let some part of our viewing entertaiment escape this. I understand all these people saying Europeans have been doing it for years but since when have they been appointed the nudity standard status. No one cares about anything else they do.
wow thanks for posting that you are just as much a hypocrite as the men you attempt to call in your statement, chickfuzz….. why did her statement bring forth any kind of commentary what so ever? I say this as a straight male, not gay, not bisexual, mind you lady. Hell with me being a guest you might as well imagine me as one of those guys with pornstar body parts just because i just might actually be one.
I agree that this show had a bit too much nudity for my comfort, but It did provide something for almost everyone. For men, a chance to see the breasts they love; and for feminists, something to complain about. Everyone's happy.
come on folks its HBO not cbs. bout all i can say . look at the tits in spartacus on starz whos bitching about that. how bout the episode where the whores get killed in spartacus. its all part of paying for premium channels dont pay for them if you dont like them. simple and short
I got an idea, Don't watch if if you don't like the creative choices made for the TV show, You don't need to watch it, If the writers want in the show why not. Grow up people your all a bunch of bloody children.
Breasts and sex are natural…if that bothers this "lady" too bad…suck it up.
She lets the violence go, but boobs…no way!
Idiotic. Thank the light it is only her "opinion". Don't like it, turn the channel.
Wow. Everyone here including the OP is a moron. Sex is part of life. Nudity is life. GRR Martin has said multiple times that he’s only shown what he felt was important, as he didn’t wish for GoT to become fodder for exactly this kind of debate. Roz’s audition was necessary to give visual point to Littlefinger’s monologue. A monologue made important by the fact that you cannot just have random exposition in visual media like you can with written word. Translating literature to visual media requires a shift from 3rd person past to 3rd person present. That eliminates the ability to give more information. “He was happy” is acceptable. In written form, but an actor needs to convey that visually. In the book, Littlefinger is obsessed with sex. Catelyn, Sansa, Lyssa… That scene gave form to his character.