Supernatural: Ben Edlund Teases Golems, the Men of Letters Bunker and This Week’s Episode

SupernaturalBen Edlund has tackled quite a few unusual monsters-of-the-week on Supernatural, from the cannibalistic rugarus to the trickster fairies to alternate universes filled with meta commentary.  This week, his newest episode – titled “Everybody Hates Hitler” – brings a Golem to the Supernatural universe for the first time.  During a recent conference call, Edlund took the time to speak to journalists about the origin of this episode and what’s next for Sam and Dean after the unexpected family revelations that popped up in last week’s episode.

The Origin of “Everybody Hates Hitler”.  According to Edlund, the idea for this episode “stemmed from thinking about the Thule Society [they pronounce it Thul, instead of Thule-y, because they thought Thul was a more “menacing sound”].  We needed a sort of counter force for the Judah Initiative and the Thule, historically, is perfect because they did exist….They really did fund the early days of the Nazi party and kind of had some weird interactions with an early Hitler.  It laid itself in really nicely.  The Thule Society was kind of thrown into the mix by Andrew Dabb, who reminded me that they existed.  It then followed…necromancy seemed like the right arm of magic to pursue.”   How did it go over in the writers’ pitch meeting?  “It went over great.  Everybody’s waiting for the words ‘Nazi’ and ‘necromancer’ to be put together.”

The Thule’s Master Plan.  “Necromancy, as a rule, is the darkest form of majicks you can use, usually,” Edlund explained.  “In this case, it is something that the Thule are working on to try and kind of wed death for their own purposes.  It’s like a self-empowerment move as much as anything else.  It’s kind of like, in this situation it allows us to create a new species of undead critter, which is basically like a Thule necromancer.  It gives us this….a new species of wretched critter who happens to be a Nazi.  So you can especially kick them in the face.  [Sam and Dean] work out how to deal with those critters throughout the course of the episode.”

The Trademark Edlund Humor.  A lot of Edlund’s episodes have been some of the most classic comedy episodes of Supernatural (“Hollywood Babylon”, “Bad Day at Black Rock” and “Clap Your Hands if You Believe” among them), but lately some of his scripts have been dealing with more dramatic aspects of the show (“Blood Brother”, “Repo Men” and “The Man Who Would be King”).  Edlund says that “Everybody Hates Hitler” has “gotten a lot more funny than I have in the last couple of episodes.  Even though it revolves around some very dark material, in it is this natural comedy team of a giant Golem with a kind of old school sense of purpose and a young, Jewish man, but not an Orthodox Jewish person…he’s supposed to be a Rabbi by the rules of an awakened Golem but he’s far from it.  It lends itself to some of my favorite kind of writing.  And [Sam and Dean] dealing with this new sort of comedy team get to be comedic themselves.  Even in exploring the new [Men of Letters bunker] there’s a couple of moments [of comedy].  I think it has a higher comedy potential than the last handful of scripts I’ve done.   The Golem is so physically present, the guy we got to play him (John DeSantis), is amazing.  He’s like 6’11’.  Usually when I’m writing something for Sam and Dean and I say “this person towers over Sam and Dean” I’m in a really bad place to begin that discussion because Jared is 6’6’ or something and Jensen is tall.  Trying to get them to be towered over is pretty much an impossibility.  But this fellow [DeSantis] was amazing.  He has a voice like a church bell rolling down a hill.  He adds such presence to the intent of the comedy written in the script.”

SupernaturalThe New Men of Letters Set.  Executive producer Bob Singer also teased the new set last week and Edlund not only echoed his sentiments that “It’s gorgeous”, but he also dropped a few tidbits about how the set was originally envisioned by him.  “When Adam Glass brought the Men of Letters into his episode it was the opportunity to give [the Winchester brothers] a really, really cool atmosphere-rich kind of space for them to be in and Jerry Wanek has done a beautiful job making it real.”  But it was originally a big challenges, because when Edlund first sat down to write the language to make the set become real he said that he “kind of got really prosey in the scripts because I was just so excited to do it I had to limit myself.   It started out unproduceable and then we scaled it back.  At one point it was constructed as ‘an echo of the Axis Mundi’ and it actually was a mini-universe underground that had all of these spiral staircases.  But this is just gorgeous.  I made something that was unshootable and Jerry made it something incredible.”  As for Sam and Dean’s reaction…we can see from a sneak peek for the episode that Dean seems to think the new digs are pretty awesome, but Sam is really the one who geeks out.  Edlund teased that Sam is “a little starry-eyed and voracious the way he was at Standford.”

Stumbling On to This Case.  The way that Sam and Dean find this week’s particular Supernatural case actually stems from the Men of Letters set and will play in to how they view this repository of information.  “The way they get to the case comes from…Sam’s really excited that they’re in this place and he’s really jazed about this wealth of information in the library there and everything that comes from inheriting the Men of Letters headquarters.  Dean is a little less, sort of, geeked out in that regard and kind of points out that all of the information kind of terminates in 1958.  So how it relates to the present day is a mystery to him, in a sense, but then the case actually stems from what they learn while going through the files and Sam, kind of connecting the dots and trying to figure out ‘what is relevant today?’, gets a hit that draws them into a case that they wouldn’t have otherwise pursued.    Ultimately the story stems from their inheritance of the Men of Letters [information].”

The Tablet Arc.  Edlund does admit that “in this [episode] the tablet story is not front and center” and it’s sort of “a break in a whole of their quest”.  However, Sam is convinced – and the writers seem to be heading in this direction – that the Men of Letters bunker will be important to the mytharc: “[Sam] feels strongly that things will come from this [that will relate to their season-long quest].  He leaps into the library and the data banks of this place.  It, for him, represents a kind of well that he wants to get to know because he feels convinced It’s going to actually give them leads and information.  In the history of the Winchesters they’ve had the myth of secret societies but almost no contact with them.  We’ve never really made a point of them and they really are such a huge sort of corridor of occult studies.”  But Sam thinks they’ve hit paydirt with this information that will “add up to something that gives us tools to fight the enemies that we are courting this season.  It doesn’t directly affect the tablet story but it builds in on their story as time passes.”

Don’t miss an all new episode of Supernatural on February 6 at 9:00 p.m. ET/PT on The CW.  Visit our Supernatural page for photos, previews and more.

 

  • Shereile

    Sounds boring. Also nothing about Dean that is of substance. Typical.

    • http://www.tvovermind.com Clarissa

      I don’t recall any specific Edlund episode that was ever “boring”, but I don’t understand your comment about Dean at all. The point of this call was to talk about this episode – which we did. We also talked about both brothers, how they’ll deal with the new location, etc. Everything about both boys affects Dean as well since he – as you must know – is one-half of that small family.

      If you’re referring to the fact that Sam geeks out over the new digs while Dean doesn’t have the same reaction, then I’d ask what you were expecting because Dean *wouldn’t* react like that to that kind of information. That is, by his own admission, more of Sam’s balliwick.

    • CG

      Yep, pretty much Sam, Sam, Sam then more Sam and oh a quick mention of Dean before more Sam.

      • Walter Mitty

        It wasn’t about Sam if you didn’t watch the episode you missed out. Dean had great comic moments throughout the episode. Dean and Aaron, Sam and the golem had real chemistry. I laughed my ass off.

  • Gina

    And I should care about this episode why? It contributes what exactly?

    No thanks.

    • http://www.tvovermind.com Clarissa

      What does it contribute? It continues 1/23rd of the overall season. What – exactly – where you expecting it to contribute, since your comment provides no basis for you dissing the episode before it even airs.

      • Dana

        Wow, most of the SPN fandom seems to become haters central with season 8, sorry to see that.

        But I really couldn’t care less about the haters, personally I just love season 8, all I miss is Bobby, I still feel it was one of Seras bigger mistakes to kill him off needlessly.

        Great interview Clarissa! Can’t wait to see the episode, Edlund never lets one down, his epsiodes are always epic.

        BTW, the whole legacies thingy and the HQ with the well of information on the Supernatural, does remind one of “Poltergeist – The Legacy” (ages old organisation who chronicles the deeds of the Supernatural around the globe and tries to protect normal people) …sounds like the “Men of Letters” somehow. :)
        Can’t wait what to learn more about the Men of Letters in further episodes, hopefully Crowley and the tablets will be back soon. :)

        • amr723

          Agree, Dana! Couldn’t have said it better!

  • Amy

    WHERE. THE F*CK. IS CAS.

    I’m seriously getting mad now. I don’t give a f*ck about any of this. I’m so glad the boys are having lighthearted fun times messing with golems and larping (oh and of course a man who f*cks his dog, next week), while Cas is who knows where, being mind-controlled, and possibly being forced to kill more people.

    What the hell?!

    • http://www.tvovermind.com Clarissa

      Actually, next week the tablet story returns full force when Kevin has a breakthrough with their demon tablet (it’s not the dog episode, FYI). Which probably means that Cas will either be mentioned or make a return appearance.

      Bob Singer has said that Castiel is important to the tablet story and since the angels are important to the story as well, it’s clear we’ll see him again.

      • Chello

        Bob Singer basically called Cas a plot device. That doesn’t inspire much confidence for me.

        • http://www.tvovermind.com Clarissa

          Actually, he didn’t, and I heard the whole interview. He called Castiel “crucial” to the tablet storyline. That’s not a plot device, that’s a player. “Plot device” in this case, is your own particular conclusion that, unfortunately, doesn’t fit in with what we know.

  • Dana

    If Cas isn’t mentioned AGAIN this week, I seriously may have to quit Spn for a while.

    I thought Cas was like their family. He sure isn’t being treated like one.

    • http://www.tvovermind.com Clarissa

      I’ll admit that I find it a bit odd that Cas hasn’t been mentioned following Sam and Dean’s suspicions in “Torn and Frayed”, but Bob Singer has stressed that Castiel is important to the overall mythology. I suspect that we may not hear about him again until he’s read to make a return appearance. The tablet story will once again heat up in next week’s episode (Feb 13), at which time I suspect we’ll hear more about him, even if he doesn’t appear.

      • Dana

        I hope you’re right…

        • http://www.tvovermind.com Clarissa

          I’ll be honest with you, I have no idea how this particular arc will end, but there is a ZERO % chance that Cas will not return this season. It’s not even a possibility. He’ll be back. I’m not even sure why you would be worried about that since there’s no chance in hell that “Torn and Frayed” was his final appearance. It wasn’t a send-off episode and there’s so much more to learn about him, Naomi, etc. Even if Sam and Dean aren’t talking about it right now doesn’t mean that the tablets – and, as a result, Naomi and Castiel – aren’t part of the season’s arc. There’s absolutely no evidence to the contrary and all of the evidence to support this.

          • Dana

            I know that Cas is going to return. I have no doubts about that. But that’s not what’s upsetting to me…what’s upsetting is that the boys left him in such a scary and uncertain place, and seemingly forgot all about it. This would be the third episode in a row with no care or concern for it. I can’t help but feel that if it were Bobby, it would be treated differently. And I don’t understand that, because Cas is their family, and just as recently as 8×07, we saw Dean being OVERLY protective of him, not even wanting him to go into a room by himself. And now it’s like “CAS? CAS WHO?”

            It’s a continuity problem, in my eyes. I just hate it when they treat Cas like this.

          • Alex

            Of course Cas will return, he is the best fan bait ever. I think many of us are disapponted and worried because the show (and not just this season) brings him back just to torture him (and usually Dean by proxy) and then forgets all about him for several episodes. We know he is important to the brothers, why can’t he be important to the show as well, why can’t they show us that Dean and Sam care about him? He was suicidal in 8×10 and he hasn’t been mentioned in 8×11 and 8×12. How does that make sense?

        • http://www.tvovermind.com Clarissa

          Sorry, can’t reply to your comment below, but I get your point. It’s a bit strange that he wasn’t mentioned at all, but I feel like there’s precedent for this.

          At the same time, Edlund didn’t tell us every line in the episode. It’s possible he’s mentioned in this episode. I honestly don’t know.

  • Lia

    So while Sam is all the brains of the operation (according to Singer and now Edlund) and figures everything out ALL on his own (because he’s the “starry-eyed” Stanford educated one…), Dean does… what exactly? Sit around and act like he doesn’t know how to do research? Are we going to pretend that his dad’s journal wasn’t one of the most important things to Dean? He knows how to do research as well, SHOW. Give me a break.

    • http://www.tvovermind.com Clarissa

      I’m not really sure why you think that Dean sits around and does nothing just because people stress that Sam is obviously overjoyed to find the location (which, frankly, fits in with his character). Do you think Dean’s just going to go wander around the rooms and leave Sam to read through all of the books on his own?

      Edlund talks about how Dean wonders how the information is applicable to what they’re dealing with today, which obviously points Sam in the direction of trying to find how the information in the library is useful, which leads them to this case.

      • Lia

        Well unless I misunderstood Edlund’s words, according to your article, Dean doubts that these files would be relevant to today. It’s SAM who finds the relevance, proving Dean WRONG about the files not being relevant:

        “Dean is a little less, sort of, geeked out in that regard and kind of points out that all of the information kind of terminates in 1958. So how it relates to the present day is a mystery to him, in a sense, but then the case actually stems from what they learn while going through the files and Sam, kind of connecting the dots and trying to figure out ‘what is relevant today?’, gets a hit that draws them into a case that they wouldn’t have otherwise pursued.”

        Also:

        “However, Sam is convinced – and the writers seem to be heading in this direction – that the Men of Letters bunker will be important to the mytharc: “[Sam] feels strongly that things will come from this [that will relate to their season-long quest].”

        SAM is convinced. SAM feels strongly. Not Sam and Dean, just Sam. So yes, it seems to me that Dean is just going to be hanging out until SAM “connects the dots.” Unless I’m missing something in the article and Edlund did indicate that Dean is actually doing something else (besides being wrong about the usefulness of the Men of Letters files)?

        • http://www.tvovermind.com Clarissa

          It’s his questioning that leads them to the case. Yes, the quotes are correct, but you’re also taking one small portion of an overall storyline to suit your purposes. I’m not sure why you would judge a storyline (or their entire reactions) just based on a single article. Just because Edlund doesn’t specifically detail what Dean does, doesn’t mean he does nothing.

          Until the episode – and, frankly, the season – airs, then we cannot conclusively judge the impact of this new discovery on both main characters.

  • Ezra Moore

    I’m looking forward to it. Love the Men of Letters and Henry Winchester and his legacy to his grandsons.

  • Gabriel

    I don’t understand these complaints. Season 8 has been fantastic. I’m getting a kick out of the episodes.

    • http://www.tvovermind.com Clarissa

      I agree! I’ve thoroughly enjoyed the season as a whole. I feel like there were some missteps (ie. the Sam and Amelia storyline, which I never really felt), but overall the season has been great and the last several episodes have been a terrific stretch of stories. I’m very excited to see what happens next!

    • Melody

      I’m right there with you, I’m loving season 8 and this new development in family history intrigues me. For those freaking out about Cas, stop. He’s an important part of the show and he’s important to the boys so relax he’ll be back.

  • Maddy

    “Sam is convinced… Sam feels … Sam thinks …” Not a single mention of Dean in that entire tablet arc paragraph, and barely a mention of him before that except to say he’s not impressed with the library (‘cuz he’s just a dumb ape, I guess), and thinks the digs are cool. Coming on the heels of Singer’s latest round of SamsamsamsamsamsamDeanwho? interviews, it’s pretty clear this Men of Letters is intended to be yet another storyline for Sam, and maybe Dean will get to drive him around, per usual.

    Send out an alert when someone comes up with a storyline for Dean.

    • http://www.tvovermind.com Clarissa

      That’s actually pretty funny because last week I listened to all of the Sam fans say that Sam is never allowed to talk to any of the guest stars and why was Dean given the opportunity to connect with Henry more (even through anger) than Sam.

      I’m not sure why you’ve completely disregarded the entire Purgatory storyline from the first half of the season which, frankly, was more interesting to me personally than Sam’s normal life storyline. And no one is calling Dean a dumb ape. Those are your words. I specifically said that it’s Dean’s questioning of how useful the bunker information is to their present day troubles that eventually leads them to discovering this particular case (and perhaps even more cases since it’s clear that they’re going to be spending a lot of time on this set).

      Dean isn’t the type to geek out over a library. Dean is the type to geek out over LARPing and things of that nature because that’s Dean’s personality. It doesn’t make him stupid, it just makes him different from his brother.

      • Anja

        Ah yes, the Purgatory storyline, the whole 5 minutes we got of it :/ And why? “because we can’t have the brothers separated, nonono, it would upset the fans too much”… says Singer.

        • Jessie

          I agree with you on the Purgatory storyline. I really really loved it, and my brother who watches the show with me, also loved it. He asks me if we’re going to see more of it in the next episodes. And it’s a shame we don’t. The story was really interesting, the scenes were visually beautiful, Benny’s character was great (hoping for a return). I wish we could have seen more of it. And like you said, Dean had indeed his own storyline with Purgatory but it was very shortlived since it’s already over. We were just starting to see him having a new side, other than “taking care of Sammy”. Something to add up to his duty of taking care of his brother which I totally love. I would just like to see him having his own story, at the same time as being with Sam, who had practically a whole season dedicated to his troubles in season 4.

        • Maddy

          “Ah yes, the Purgatory storyline, the whole 5 minutes we got of it :/ And why? “because we can’t have the brothers separated, nonono, it would upset the fans too much”… says Singer”

          Yahtzee. Purgatory was not a storyline – sorry, but even Sam!girl Singer said as much months ago, as well as before the season started. Unfortunately, it was just another plot device excuse for more brother division, culminating in the annual Sam Whitewash. Nothing new, nothing resolved, same old, same old.

          As much as Dean fans were truly hoping, with Carver’s recent experience on a show with three/now *four* equal leads who all get storylines that are unique, yet still manage to interact with each other, that he would bring that desperately needed experience over to SPN and finally promote Dean back from the reactive sidelines, unfortunately Carver instead instantly settled into long established tired divisive SOP. It’s like he never left. I guess the real talent behind Syfy’s “Being Human” has always been his wife, judging by how strong “Being Human”‘s season three has been so far.

          There were a lot of expectations for Purgatory to be that years-long overdue truly unique Deancentric s/l. And while the whole five minutes of Dean/Benny/Cas were terrific, that’s all it was, while the snorefest of Samelia ran three times as long, which gave my FF finger quite the work-out. So I have a skinny remote finger – but that’s all I got out of it.

          And the best new character this show has seen in years (vamp Benny), a character who, again, should be of genuine interest to Carver, if he got anything out of “Being Human” (which maybe not), is already eliminated (yes, I know what Singer recently said, and the result will be exactly the same).

          The continued inequitable storytelling on a show with a whopping two whole leads is simply a very bad habit that never breaks, and will only continue to keep the fandom divided.

          • Sally

            I do agree with the inequality in storytelling , pov and interaction which certainly has been biased towards Dean. I do understand that Sams mere presence on the show upsets some and that the Dean/Benny/Cas dynamics is what the show should be about and how dare them give that other one anything because it is only about two leads when Dean is being percieved as being wrong however the Purgatory sl was not going to go on forever and at least Dean didnt end up with a handrub and a quickfix and he got Benny out of it . But the Amelia sl was worst and Dean wasnt put in the position of not looking for his brother .

            But we all see it all differently .

      • Sally

        Exacty. Although it does seem Dean can geek out over the things he likes and it be adorable and typical Dean. Sam it seems cannot geek out over something he likes because some how it not only insults Dean’s intelligence but actually give Sam something. Dean’s Purgatory I must say was done better than Sam and Amelia and Benny was written much better than Amelia. Both boys are different in personality and Sam geeks out over books I can relate to that because I do .

        • Peter J

          I think the difference is that when Dean geeks out about something, it’s either presented as silly fun, or not commented on at all. When Sam has a passion, those who run the show proceed to reinforce to viewers in interview after interview how incredibly important and profound this is.

  • Kelsey

    That’s great that Sam has a storyline that’s tied to the mytharc and he’s doing research, finding them cases, etc, but it’s such a shame that the writers and producers don’t have anything for Dean except to say he gets to hang up posters. Wow, such an exciting story for Dean, /sarcasm

  • Destiny

    I appreciate you asking about Dean but unfortunately, once again, we get nothing of sustenance.

    I think wondering around the rooms is exactly what Dean is going to do. Pointing Sam in the right direction is one again Dean playing sidekick. No thanks, got enough of that all through season 5. I don’t see pointing out that the info stopped at 1958 is supposed to be exciting or enticing if you want more for Dean. This last episode Dean seemed to lose the ability to google something, and now him saying its all useless without really checking it out, makes me hope this isn’t the start of a trend. especially since it sounds like another way to point out how smart Sam is because he found the connection where Dean didn’t even think they should try.

    I agree about Cas. If the boys cut ties with Amelia, and Benny to focus on the case then why are they playing dressing up and reading books? There’s been nothing about the tablets. (Although, since they sound like a set up for another Superspecial Sam power hour, so maybe that’s a good thing).

    Sam may geek out over the books but I would think Dean might have some interest in the library to see if their might be family history. There are way to include Dean in the geek stuff.

    Maybe when Sam’s out closing the gates of hell (because I’m now convinced its going to be him facing the trials because all the info is in the deuce ex library that apparently only Sam’s interested in) Dean can ask Benny and Cas to help him hang his posters.

    • http://www.tvovermind.com Clarissa

      I’m not certain why you would conclude Dean’s storyline based on a single interview, but I think you’re jumping the gun. Your point about Dean learning about his family’s history is a good one and we don’t know that something like that might not happen. Edlund didn’t tell us everything that will happen in the episode, or in the season. I’ll admit that the whole “hanging posters” comment was rather silly, but I highly doubt it’s meant to be taken literally.

      Maybe wait to see the episode instead of concluding that Dean does nothing. Wouldn’t you rather look forward to the possibilities for your favorite character instead of being fatalistic? That doesn’t seem like a good way to enjoy the show, frankly.

      • Destiny

        I’ve been speculating about possibilities for Dean for the last two and half years and so far nothing’s happened. There comes a time when you stop speculating and start believing what your reading on page and not between the lines. If you’re wondering why I still watch, the answer is very simple. Jensen Ackles. He makes Dean come alive, despite the crappy writing and lack of good stories for Dean.

        I was so excited at the prospect of the purgatory storyline, but ultimately that was pretty much pointless filler since Dean never got to keep his character growth. I loved seeing Dean putting his needs first and defending his friendship with Benny. Ultimately, Purgatory was more about the pain Dean’s absence caused Sam than how it effected Dean because his PTSD was dropped after about an episode and a half. Once again, great set up, no payoff.

        I’m honestly not sure what there is to speculate about. What bands Dean might decide to cover his walls with? Will he get the Impala there in time so Sam can get inspiration from his toy solider? When they bring Benny back, is he going to be added to the list of those that betray Dean?

        Not super exciting if your a person who wants to see Dean as more than Sam’s body guard.

        As for the trials, it sounds like a perfect set up for it to be Sam. Will mouth-breathing Dean rush head first to attempt to kill the hell hound while Stanford Grad Sam finds the answer in the book and rushes in at the last minute to save the day.

        Ep 14 will be the turning point for me. Not even Jensen can entice me to watch another Sam the saviour of the world plot.

        • http://www.tvovermind.com Clarissa

          Well if you think Dean has had nothing to do in the last two and a half years then we should probably stop this debate entirely because I don’t feel that way at all and it’s clear that there’s no common ground here. And that’s not meant to be mean, I honestly just don’t feel like Dean has been sidelined at all and it doesn’t seem like we’re going to change each other’s minds.

          And, frankly, regarding the trails, I actually feel like this may be more Dean’s cup of tea especially given what he experienced in Purgatory and his own personal experience with hell hounds (given the first trial). But I’m interested in seeing the argument between them to see how they figure out who is going to do the trials. It will be interesting to see which points are brought up as to why one of them should do it over the other. I always feel that’s interesting character perspective.

          • Destiny

            Last comment. Sorry I wasn’t more clear. It’s not that Dean hasn’t had anything but I’m talking about a supernatural related mytharc arc. Season 6 was Sam’ wall, Sam’s soul, and Cas and his power trip. Season 7, to be fair didn’t really give Sam or Dean much to do.

            I don’t need it to be exclusively Dean. I would have been find with each brother doing one and then both doing the last but As for the trials it doesn’t say they can share. It says one person must face 3 tests. One person.

            I agree its more Dean’s cup of tea but that doesn’t mean the show won’t spin it so that the trials are more suited to the “brains” than the brawn.

            I would love to be wrong and get a nice big I told you so, but given that the way the show set up, with the return of protective Dean, and geeked out hunting is now worth my time Sam its seems like the perfect set up for another BDH moment for Sam.

            But we can agree to disagree.

          • Peter J

            From another Singer interview the impression was given (by the interviewer) that Sam would be doing the trials. I’d rather see Dean in this role but am expecting Sam.

        • http://www.tvovermind.com Clarissa

          OK, but we have two tablets in the mix right now, which means – potentially, – two sets of trials. And perhaps more coming down the pipeline next season. Also, I wouldn’t categorize Dean as not having brains. I thought the ingenuous method he created to defeat Eve was proof of that. The trials don’t necessarily have to be divided between brains and brawn – it’s likely that any trial will require a combination of BOTH. In this case, given the fact that Dean has been hacking his way through Purgatory for a year I might say that him doing the trials would make more sense because he obviously learned a lot about fighting down there and was able to hone his skills, but obviously the brains will play into the situation as well.

          As for I told you sos….I can promise I won’t do that. I hope you get what you want from the show. I wish there was a way for everyone to happy, frankly. Maybe not all the time, but overall.

          • Kelsey

            I agree, it does make sense for Dean to do the trials, however, based on(1) ,Singer’s interview last week, where he talked about the conflict between the brothers (2) the spoiler that only one person can do the trials, and (3) Dean’s statement in last week’s ep that he’d do anything to save Sam, and i think it’s a fair interpretation to think it’s Sam that will be doing the trials. It sounds like it’s Swan Song again, Sam will want to do the trials and Dean will want to do them, but Sam will try and convince Dean that he needs to do this.

            Considering that neither Singer nor Edlund had anything really to say about any spoilers or anything upcoming for Dean other than to say Dean gets to put posters up, it’s pretty disheartening. Edlund’s comments about Dean not being interested in whats at the Men of Letters batcave goes against what we know of Dean, especially that comment about the info stopping at 1958. Dean knows the value of old documents and lore, I don’t think he’d ever say something like that.

            I don’t understand why it’s so difficult for the show to write a storyline for Dean himself that ties to the mytharc, one that Dean is active in and not just reacting to what’s going on with other characters.

          • http://www.tvovermind.com Clarissa

            Kelsey, I can’t respond to your comment specifically (silly commenting system), but I would say that point #3 actually sort of goes against your point. If Dean is serious that he would do anything to save Sam, then it would logically follow that he will insist on doing the trials to protect Sam and prevent him from being harmed. This is a different situation than Swan Song where Sam was Lucifer’s vessel. In this case, I would argue that the trials are not necessarily something that Sam *has* to do unless the show comes up with a very compelling argument. And even then, there’s an equally good argument that could be made for Dean doing it.

            And yes, frankly, the posters comment was silly. But I think it was an off-the-cuff comment and not meant to be indicative about an actual storyline.

          • Kelsey

            This is in reply to clarissa’s reply to me (LOL):

            Clarissa- my pint #3 goes with Singer’s comment that there will be conflict between the brothers. Sam will want to do the trials, but Dean will want to do them, he’ll want to put his life in danger, not Sam’s. but, somehow/for whatever reason, Sam convinces Dean, and thats the source of the conflict, An isn’t happy about it, but is forced or whatever to go along with Sam.

          • http://www.tvovermind.com Clarissa

            @Kelsey – Singer didn’t actually clarify what the conflict could be between them. It could be related to the trials or to something else entirely. I don’t know.

            And I’m still not really following your point A to point B thing regarding why Sam has to do the trials. I really do think this is a different situation than earlier cases. If Sam *does* end up doing the trials, then there might be a good reason for it depending on the argument. I’ll hold judgment until we see how that plays out. Fortunately, we don’t have that long to wait!

          • Destiny

            With regards to the trials I feel like we’re about to head down Dead Horse Lane, with yet another round of Dean needs to learn to let Sam go/grow up.

            I’ve been dreading this big emotional conversation that the boys are supposed to have since I first heard about it because past history usually has Sam listing all the ways Dean’s mistreats him and then Dean apologizing. So far that’s exactly what happened this year with Southern Comfort and the way events after Citizen Fang played out.

            I can see the show using the trials as another Sam redemption story (which fits with Singers comments about how its a personal vendetta for Sam) for him no looking for Dean. I can see the show spinning it as Sam suddenly wanting to make up for that by taking on the burden of the trials and talking about how this is a perfect time for Dean to show he trusts Sam by letting him do this. AKA Swan Song Part 2.

            I agree the the trials will require brain and brawn but its not what I believe that matters, its the show runners. They are the ones coming right out and making the divide. They could have avoided it saying that three tests must be passed and let the boys split them.

            Ep 14 will be the deciding factor for me. If Sam does them, it will tell me that Dean will never be more than Sam’s support system/body guard and I want more for Dean than that.

        • http://www.tvovermind.com Clarissa

          Destiny, with regard to your “dead horse” comment, I’ll repeat exactly what I said to another commenter here, because I had no idea that the Sam vendetta comment from Singer had been taken so *completely* out of context.

          The reason Singer made the comment was that someone legitimately asked him about Sam specifically. More to the point, the journalist said that Sam has been wavering this season about his desire to return to hunting after his year away from it but that at the end of “As Time Goes By” he sort of understands the Winchesters’ heritage more. Singer specifically responded to the question by saying that, yes, Sam feels this pull and also that the tablet quest is about revenge for him.

          In other words, Sam was mentioned because the question specifically referred to *Sam* and his storyline thus far. It has *nothing* to do with the tablet quest NOT being personal for Dean. Dean was the first person who brought up the personal nature of this quest all the way back in episode 8.01.

          The bottom line is that the tablet arc is NOT solely focused on Sam and Singer has not said *anything* about Sam doing the trials. I don’t know if someone else made it *seem* like that, but nothing Singer said confirms it. If it happens, it happens. But not because Singer spoiled it.

    • Anja

      “Dean can ask Benny and Cas to help him hang his posters”
      Oh nono, that would mean side characters, Supernatural doesn’t do side characters, just the brothers, the typical loners 5eva!

  • Teresa

    Ben Edlund obviously has had some excellent episodes, and some not. I’ll wait and see how this one goes. He does tend to be Sam-centric…This season, I’m kind of enjoying the ones not about the main arc this year as the tablet ones are pretty trite. (Almost as bad as the new biggest-baddest Leviathan, but all you have to do is cut off the head.) Anyone who was surprised that there was an angel and/or heaven tablet to go with Leviathan/Purgatory and Demon/Hell would have to be pretty damn slow on the uptake.

  • Anja

    Mehh, Singer’s interview last week ruined it all for me, I still can’t understand how can the writers allow such holes in continuity. Not mentioning Cas, after he admitted he has toughts of suicide, and now that he’s Naomi’s puppet, is just laziness on the part of the writers. Sometimes it feels like each of them gets one episode and they don’t even know what’s going on in the rest of the season. While I liked last two episodes in terms of the plot, I can’t get over the fact that they forgot about Cas completely.

  • Alex

    It looks like Dean is only needed to hold Sam’s hand or drive him around. SPN tends to forget that Dean is just as smart as Sam, just in a different way.
    Not sure it’s worth it without Cas, even though I’ve always loved Edlund episodes. Cas won’t be back until 8×17 from what I’ve heard and I doubt he will be mentioned. Cas should be important to Sam and Dean and to the show as a whole, not just “integral to the tablet arc”.

  • Chello

    My thoughts exactly!

    • Walter Mitty

      Too bad you skipped this episode because you missed out on a great one.

  • Nathalie

    I think Dean does care a lot. It’s simply that the writers apparently have issues with continuity. this sudden 180 turn after 8×10 feels weird to me.

    • Greenify

      I know Dean cares. Hell, I know Dean loves him. But I meant that that’s just how the writers are making it seem right now. And they did something similar when Cas died in season 7, and then again when they left Cas in the insane asylum. I’m just tired of Cas being treated like crap, and it’s not Sam and Dean’s fault, because I truly don’t think this is in character for them. I guess it’s just the writers.

  • http://winestainedlife.com Erin

    You know, I always find it really exciting and productive to get ones panties completely tied into knots over an episode or episodes that haven’t aired yet. Why watch a show if you can’t assume you know everything about what will happen and get super pissed about it? Sam has something he gets to be excited about this week so obviously Dean will probably not be in the episode. I’m glad I don’t have to watch the show anymore. I can just read comments to find out exactly what kind of crappy things happen before anyone else. YAY!!

    • Jessica

      You read my mind! You forgot one thing though. You absolutely must whine incessantly about the episode prior to its airing. Then subsequent to its airing you must whine even more because *insert your favorite character* totally got the shaft during the episode just like you thought. And then *other character that’s not your favorite* got all the best storylines and *insert your favorite character* has just been destroyed beyond repair.

      • Juli

        :D I just wonder if there’s a psychiatric diagnosis for that kind of behavior or if they missed getting an anti-possession tattoo…

        • London

          I don’t think the ableist comments are really unnecessary here. You can disagree with people, but saying that they need psychiatric help is an insult to those who have legitimate mental illness. I just popped in to say that, carry on with your conversation.

          • Juli

            “I don’t think the ableist comments are really unnecessary here. You can disagree with people, but saying that they need psychiatric help is an insult to those who have legitimate mental illness. I just popped in to say that, carry on with your conversation.”

            How could that be an insult to people with “legitimate mental illness” when I ask if there is a diagnosis for this obviously unhealthy behavior some people show in the comments? Sorry, my English isn’t good enough to easily summarize it, but they talk themselves (and others!) into feeling overly bad about something that was simply meant as an option to have a nice time! And they bash the hard work the whole crew puts into this show!

            THAT is an insult! And that is an unhealthy behavior worth checking if these people treat other things in their lives the same way and might need help from a therapist to live a healthier and happier life and stop them from dragging other people down!

          • Juli

            Sorry, the quote wasn’t visible in the comment field anymore and I forgot to delete it. ;)

            I just want to add that I have nothing against logical criticism, quite the contrary, and I also wondered about Cas not even being mentioned in the last two episodes, though I can think of several reasons for that.
            But some people completely go overboard.

  • kelios

    I’m cautiously excited for the new direction the season seems to be headed–the Men of Letters storyline sounds really good and I’m looking forward to learning more about the mythology of Sam and Dean’s world. I’m even willing to handwave the weirdness of a second ‘secret society’ (counting the Campbells as the first one) that neither Bobby nor the Winchesters ever heard anything about. And I’m VERY happy not to have angels on my screen for a few more eps yet–I’ve really come to hate them and any storyline that deals with them for more than an ep.

    But I’m still confused and a little unhappy about the way the first half of the season has seemingly disappeared. I mean, one conversation and everything wrong between Sam and Dean is just gone? Sam not looking for Dean and wanting to kill Benny just swept under the rug like it never happened? I need a little more closure on those stories; at the moment I feel like I’ve got emotional whiplash.

  • Chello

    Dean cares. He just does it off-screen. Yet somehow that’s not very satisfying to me.

  • Di

    Greenify I agree with you about Dean and Castiel! I think there are more emotions between them swirling under the surface, and dammit, I’d like to see that explored as well. Cas is as important as the boys, and has superior knowledge why isn’t he used more?

  • Kix

    Whether or not you like Castiel as a character, this whole not mentioning him thing is freaking me out because it’s just such BAD writing. Sam and Dean obviously care for Cas and have shown as much in the past (Hell, Dean waited a whole year in purgatory searching for Cas. He could have left any time he wanted through the portal and left Cas behind). But now? Literally, they said “What’s going on with Cas?”, then Dean said hey I got this, Sam had his crisis with choosing Amelia over Dean, and then NOTHING. NOTHING.

    That’s disturbing as hell. They don’t mention him, not even once? Not even his name? Not even “hey what about that guy who has been saving our hides left and right for the last four and a half seasons, wonder how he’s doing all mind controlled in who knows where?”

    Really, this is just terrible writing. I hope the show realizes that. I can’t accept this kind of plot unless the hints about the wallpaper and recurring patterns is a prelude to Gabriel’s return and it’s some kind of trick world he’s invented up. I just can’t buy it. I can’t buy that neither Dean nor Sam, ESPECIALLY Dean wouldn’t mention Cas even once.

    It’s disappointing too because I’m REALLY interested in the Men of Letters and tablet business, but sometimes it feels like Sam and Dean are being reverted back to their old selves from season 1 before they had any character growth and Crowley, who used to be one of my favorite characters bless his sassy soul (even though he doesn’t have one) has now become boring. He used to have such could motivation, and now he just seems… boring.

    I don’t know guys. I just don’t know.

    • Gerry

      The thing is, remember that we know more about what’s going on with Cas than Sam and Dean do. Dean has a gut feeling something doesn’t add up with Cas’ escape, but no facts. Now that gut feeling is stronger because Cas seemed off with the Samandriel situation, and that’s enough to bring Sam onboard. But they don’t know he’s being mind controlled and they don’t know he killed Samandriel and they have no reason not to believe him when he tells them he’s now OK with going to heaven–Dean can be suspicious, but he again, he has no facts. Dean did question Cas, so it’s not like he didn’t remember what Cas said about his feelings.

      I think it makes sense that the boys are waiting for Cas to contact them again, whereupon Dean will poke around to see if he can get a better read on what’s up with Cas–or perhaps what’s wrong will be front and centre if Naomi sends him to do something to the Winchesters. But Sam and Dean have no idea that’s a possibility, and they have lots on their mind, so they are following what’s opened up in front of them.

      I think there’s some continuity problems this year, but Sam and Dean not acting like they know Castiel is being mind controlled is not one of them, as they don’t know that yet. Now, I do agree that the tablet story line is not playing out particularly well as a whole. It’s not exactly driving the season with any force. Have we ever seen this little of Crowley before?

      • Gerry

        Hmm, just went back and read the transcript and they are suspicious of mind control, more than I remembered. So yeah, time to bring back that story line.

        • http://www.tvovermind.com Clarissa

          I don’t think they’re suspicious of mind control per se, but of maybe Heaven having some influence over him. They definitely think something is “up” with Castiel, no doubt, but they’re completely unclear on the specifics, even after their discussion in the cabin. And I do hope we see some more progress on this front soon. My biggest hope is that they’ll find a way to save him from the evil Naomi quickly!

          • Melanie

            I don’t think its odd that they haven’t talked about Castiel. They do not want to be overheard by any of the angels, or Cas himself, and they cannot be sure of that unless they are in a room with the wards on it.

            I’m excited for this episode and I’m glad that Edlund is getting a chance to be humorous again. Can’t wait to see the boys new ‘home base’ and I LOVE the whole Men of Letters reveal.

          • Peter J

            Dean didn’t even seem to think he was being controlled. He seemed to believe the angels would have no reason to control Cas, which made zero sense to me coming out of Dean’s mouth.

            They gave no reason why Sam and Dean would not mention Cas. Not even one line. The feeling I get from the writing is we just aren’t supposed to care about Cas, because Sam and Dean don’t care about him. When you specifically have someone go unmentioned for a long period of time after returning to a place they said would drive them to suicide, then what else are you trying to do but imply the characters aren’t worried about him?

            The show loves to bait Cas fans but they leave him out of everything beyond the bait. This Men of Letters arc would have been perfect for him. Instead he just shows up for a few appearances to be tortured.

          • http://www.tvovermind.com Clarissa

            @Peter J – I don’t actually see how the Men of Letters arc would suit Castiel. I love his character, but that storyline doesn’t really make sense for him to me. It’s a very personal storyline for Sam and Dean because of the family connection.

            But I do like Melanie’s explanation about why they don’t talk about Castiel without wards. Especially given how carefully Sam laid out the wards on the wall of the cabin before they had the discussion. I’m really interested to see how they deal with Cas or mentions of him when they’re in a protected area.

          • Peter J

            Henry’s story involved time travel, angel feathers, demons – all of this would have been at home with Cas. His bond with Dean (and friendship with Sam) would have given them a fresh voice, instead of:

            Dean: Dad did his best! I swear! He really did!

            Sam (hearing this for the millionth time): Yeah. I know, Dean.

            or

            Sam: So, Henry’s dead.

            Dean: Who cares? They’re all dead anyway.

            Cas would have had more of a reaction because he loves the Winchesters and he’s seen them suffer, sometimes through his own actions. He would have given the heart that the episode did not bother to provide. I’d never seen a show where I was asked to care not one bit over a grandfather sacrificing his life for his grandson. Until last week.

            Cas discovering the archive/library with them and marveling at some of the ancient texts and items also would have been very effective. Instead it’s Sam being amazed and Dean hanging up posters. What’s the point of the place if only one person on the show cares?

            I think Melanie’s idea is the right idea for why Cas hasn’t been mentioned, but the show didn’t even give an idea. The writer of the LARP episode just apologized, because he never even thought of mentioning Cas. This was one episode after Cas left to, for all Dean knew, kill himself. If that doesn’t tell me just how the show views Cas, then I don’t know what will.

          • http://www.tvovermind.com Clarissa

            @Peter J – I understand your proposed Cas connection a lot more now, but I don’t think the show would ever have gone in that direction. As much as the spell involved angel feathers or Sam and Dean’s conversation, the whole Henry situation is still a more personal part of Sam and Dean’s story that Castiel probably would never have been involved in. As for the archive, we don’t know whether Castiel will learn about it eventually. Singer hinted that it’s possible that the Winchesters’ closest allies might be told, but until the brothers know that they can “trust” Cas (since they’re unsure what’s going on with him at this point), then he might not become aware of it. I think that Castiel, like Bobby, has become a member of the “family” (although he’s gone through a rough patch with them as a result of season 6), but I still think there are aspects to Sam and Dean’s story that are sort of “Winchesters only”. It’s not a bad thing, it’s just a connection that they have.

            Also, I didn’t see the writer’s apology, but failing to mention him isn’t necessarily a malicious thing. To them a throwaway line might not seem as important as it is to fans. It’s not justification for the failure of a mention, but I don’t necessarily think it was deliberate on their part. The apology makes it seem like an oversight. Which, yes, technically writers shouldn’t make oversights, but it happens I guess.

          • Peter J

            I didn’t mean to give the impression that the writer (Robbie Thompson) was being malicious. What I meant was his just completely forgetting Cas, and no one running the show suggesting that Cas be mentioned, told me that Cas means very little to the show. This wasn’t an episode where Cas had gone to solve a case and had left on a good note. Dean didn’t know if he had killed himself. Cas is also supposedly involved with this tablet arc. I thought the tablet was supposed to be important. Robert Singer claims it’s important because Sam needs to avenge his family and friends. Great. But when the character most directly affected by the tablets (Cas) goes unmentioned for long periods of time, should we care? Does the show want us to care about Cas at all?

            As long as only one person on the show is affected by the library/archive, then I can’t get very excited. I’m sure we may see Kevin there or maybe that annoying idiot Garth, but the idea that Cas may not even see this place (since as always we have no idea if the character will even make it out of the season alive) annoys me, because this place would have been made for him.

            After what’s happened this season, I have no expectation of Cas ever having a large role on the show again, but I would settle for the simple knowledge that Dean and Sam care about him. I had assumed that the show heard this complaint from fans enough in seasons 6 and 7 to rectify it, but apparently not. When he goes unmentioned to the point where key plot points are tossed out the windows then it’s almost like they are sending a deliberate message by not mentioning. Not malicious, as much as “This character is not important, even if you think he is.”

            If that is the message being sent, I’d rather they just tell us directly.

          • Peter J

            I respect the point you’re making about how this Men of Letters should most affect the Winchesters, but I don’t feel like the show is in that place now, and hasn’t been for years. Other than his parents and Sam, Dean has no interest in the rest of his family. He was disgusted by Mary’s family and he didn’t care for even a moment about Henry. Henry was killed for Sam and Dean mustered up a shrug.

            I’m not criticizing Dean for any of this behavior, because most of his their family truly was scum, or idiots, or both. He also didn’t know any of these people. Henry was a stranger to him. The only memory he had of Henry was John’s life being in ruins, and John taking it out on Dean and Sam.

            The downside to this is that when you have this big family mythology arc, you have no actual reaction from the family. Sam was a little sad but I doubt he’d lose any sleep over it. Dean wasn’t even that sad. Sam loves this new “Stanford.” Dean has much less of a reaction, and apparently just sees it as a place to sleep and have downtime.

            The show found something good when they wrote stories of Cas rebelling against Heaven because of what he found in Dean and in Dean’s love for Sam. If we had seen this story as Cas saw it, as Cas saw the Winchester legacy, then I think this might have been moving.

            Instead, we get Dean’s “everybody’s dead” mentality. More of a grim shrug than a legacy.

          • http://www.tvovermind.com Clarissa

            @Peter J – I can’t speak to the reasoning why Castiel wasn’t mentioned, but I think that somewhere along the way someone completely took Bob Singer’s quote about Sam and this “revenge” out of context and it’s snowballed from there. The reason Singer made the comment was that someone legitimately asked him about Sam specifically. More to the point, the journalist said that Sam has been wavering this season about his desire to return to hunting after his year away from it but that at the end of “As Time Goes By” he sort of understands the Winchesters’ heritage more. Singer specifically responded to the question by saying that, yes, Sam feels this pull and also that the tablet quest is about revenge for him.

            In other words, Sam was mentioned because the question specifically referred to *Sam* and his storyline thus far. It has *nothing* to do with the tablet quest NOT being personal for Dean. Dean was the first person who brought up the personal nature of this quest all the way back in episode 8.01.

            I’ll admit, this is a problem for interviews unless all we do is provide a word-for-word transcript (which, to be honest, I find a boring way of presenting interviews). But don’t take failure of a mention to be indicative of a whole storyline. Sometimes it just relates to the nature of a question or how it is worded.

          • Gerry

            I remembered their reaction as much more vague than it was when I went back to read the transcript.

            DEAN
            I told you something was off with him since he got back from Purgatory.

            SAM
            So, what, you think someone’s messing with him or something?

            DEAN
            Who?

            SAM
            Angels?

            DEAN
            Why would the angels have him kill another angel?

            They are talking here about angels controlling Cas to make him kill another angel. They aren’t sure this is happening, but they have suspicions that it could be. Once you’ve got those kind of suspicions about someone you care deeply about and who is intimately involved with the quest you think is incredibly important, it is odd to allow the subject to drop. Odder than I thought at first.

            However, if they have to ward a room to discuss Cas, then it makes more sense they can’t discuss him very often. It might be nice to see some urgency on their part, though.

            I’ve had so many issues with motivation this season. Last season the issue was undeveloped arcs. This season it’s unbelievable motivations. Sigh. Still hopeful the second half of the season ties up the first, but it seems increasingly unlikely.

          • Peter J

            Thank you for clarifying. I lost track of the original context of that comment, and between Singer’s last interview and Edlund’s interview, I had begun to assume they were mostly focusing on Sam’s pain, especially since the Amelia story did not have a positive fan reaction and they may want to get fans invested in his story again.

            I still don’t understand why the show did not see that Sam and Dean would have motivation in the tablet arc if they were worried about Cas, as well as wanting vengeance for their friends and family. But these recent interviews mostly seem to focus so little on motivation for Dean or for Cas that I will have to realize my view of the show is very different from theirs. I accepted that years ago, especially after the season 6 disasters, but in the first half of this season, I’d started to think things were going to be slightly different in how Cas and how Dean were going to be presented. I guess I was mistaken.

        • http://www.tvovermind.com Clarissa

          Gerry – re: your third comment above, I think the point is that they definitely have suspicions, but no definite evidence. Like your quote says, all Sam has is a hypothesis and while Dean is convinced that something is wrong with Cas, he’s not sure *what* it is.

          I’m not saying it’s not odd that they haven’t brought him up at all (although the ward argument makes more and more sense to me now), but I think there’s some precedent for this. Sometimes when SPN goes on these standalone episodes tangents they don’t necessarily bring up events – even big events – from the mytharc. I think we’ll start to see far more urgency about this situation in episode 8.14 next week when the action circles back around to the tablets.

          • Gerry

            Hi Clarissa, I like the warding idea, too, as it does tie in to the scene in R&F. But I was easier about the lack of any touching on the storyline at all when I was remembering the boys as being worried in a vague way about Cas being odd, rather than specifically bringing up the idea of Cas being controlled by angels and made to kill Samandriel. I think once you are tossing around ideas like that, worry should be on the front burner, not the back burner.

            Part of why I think that is the quest is supposed to be a driving force this season, so we don’t get the season seven issue of meandering around until the Leviathans lost their menace and Sam’s story was robbed of punch.

            I was hoping we’d be seeing more sense of urgency all through this season. It’s not really going to work to suddenly try to manufacture urgency after letting the Cas issue fade out in the middle of the season. I found that a major problem last season with Sam’s story line. Starts out great, very urgent and moving, and then the middle just falls flat, with no movement or exploration, so the later wrap up, while well written in many ways, fails to pay off the huge set up. At least for me. So I’m troubled by the quest just being shelved when there is such a personal reason the boys should be upset in regard to Cas. I don’t want this season to have so much on the go, nothing is well explored. I’m already very disappointed with the Sam/Amelia story, the Sam/Dean/Benny story and the way the boys’ issues with each other were resolved. Loved Purgatory, though!

          • Peter J

            The lack of urgency is something which also bothers me. I try to accept it in some stories, assume some stories are supposed to have a slower pace, but sometimes, when we get to points like Sam and Dean treating their grandfather’s death like losing a sock, I wonder why we are supposed to care. The pieces for a very urgent arc story, full of motivation, were there, and instead we have a shutdown so that we can be reminded of family drama that even Sam and Dean themselves don’t seem bothered with.

      • http://www.tvovermind.com Clarissa

        I actually love this comment. I think it’s a very interesting point that I failed to bring up. WE know a great deal more about the Castiel situation than Sam and Dean do and despite his talk with Dean or his suspicious behavior, I think they’re following a pattern in how they’re dealing with Castiel. They’re very likely waiting for him to contact them and will then deal with the situation.

      • Greenify

        They did know he killed Samandriel. And Cas said he had to, it was self-defense. And then he disappeared. And then Sam and Dean angel-warded the whole house and Sam suggested mind control by the angels. And then Dean said he would take care of it, since Sam had somewhere to be.

        And then they never…took care of it…

  • Nat

    Guys, please remember the lack of Cas mentions is not the journalist fault. The article is about the episode, and clearly it isn’t about Cas :(

    Though I ask the same thing of Clarissa, if possible, to have patience with the complains. I can’t honestly understand how the writers thought it could possible be ok to ignore Cas existence after Torn and Frayed and expect us to fully enjoy Larp and the Real Girl, As Time Goes By, and generally new episodes with such a thing like what happened to Cas left unresolved. I mean, Cas said he could kill himself if he see what become of heaven… And both Sam and Dean believes Cas is being controlled, that’s the primary reason why they break up with Amelia/Benny. But suddenly they don’t care about Castiel? I really hope it’s on purpose from the writers and no just bad writing, but…

    Anyway, if “Everybody Hates Hitler” was from any other writer, I would be fair more pessimist about it. But it’s Ben Edlund. I trust him (specially with cracktastic episodes :D). Sadly I doubt it’s the episode when they’ll finally remember Cas exists, I’m sure (if that’s the case) I will feel that’s lacking something important again in the episode overall and will not fully enjoy it. ):

  • Sasha

    To be honest, interviews and tidbits from the writers have become very discouraging because they focus almost 99 % exclusively on Sam. And they have no problem spoiling storylines for him.

    Even Cas, though kicked offscreen again in ways that make no sense to me, gets lipservice to a crucial role coming up.

    Purgatory, while interesting, was dropped after very few episodes and is completely forgotten now as it hadn`t even happened. And in lieu of it, nothing gets said about Dean, not even vague spoilers of “something interesting is coming up for him.”

    It was the same in the second half of Season 5, all throughout Season 6 and 7 and what it meant onscreen was: nothing interesting came up.

    Maybe the episode will be better than it sounds right now, maybe not but it sure would be nice to read even ONE article that had something substantial for Dean in it that goes beyond one-off having scenes with a guest star but points to an actual longterm storyline. Either the writers really have nothing whatsoever to say about the character individually plotwise or noone cares to write up about it.

  • tia

    I am looking forward to this episode and all episodes that don’t have anything to do with cas or the angels. That story is so overdone that I am tired of it. Put the darn angels back in heaven already and lock them away.
    I agree 100% though with dean and no arc yet again complaints-purgatory was not really his arc- it was to introduce Benny (who i love-and he better not be a bad vamp-i want him to be an ally to dean) and to give cas something to do yet again-because god knows the writers have to force the angel line in somewhere. its rediculous. Dean hasn’t had his own arc since season 3-he has shared an arc with Sam and with cas but never his own. I thought purgatory would have been the motherload of all arcs for the most badass character on tv. but nope-dropped yet again like all of deans other “stories” throughout the supernatural seasons. I am almost done watching. I watch for J2-but Jensen is underused -I am tired of waiting for him to explode his talent on screen on supernatural.

    • http://www.tvovermind.com Clarissa

      I agree that Purgatory wasn’t really an arc (although it was definitely awesome while it lasted), but I would also say that Sam’s Amelia story wasn’t a huge arc either (and didn’t appeal to me very much).

      The main arc of the show is always a problem for both brothers. In season 3 it was clearly more Dean focused because it was him who was going to Hell, but Sam was involved because he was trying to save his brother. In season 4 that was kind of reversed. Since then I feel like the main arcs of the season involved *both* Winchesters, while each of them also have a few individual arcs that pop up and get resolved along the way.

      And Jensen is immensely talented and has an opportunity to showcase his talent each week. I always enjoy his performances.

      • tia

        Clarissa-I didn’t like the Sam/Amelia thing either. Too soap opera for a supernatural story arc. But supernatural s1-s7 even has all been about Sam. Sam being the chosen one, the Blood junky, souless sam, crazy sam ect… you get my meaning. We have had cas -same thing-the list is endless with what he has gone thru. And what did Dean get??? Nada, Nothing> purgatory was a missed opportunity -by the way -can you promise to ask Edlund, Carver or Singer what the h*ll happened to Dean’s purgatory weapon???? Jensen said it was one of his favorites and we haven’t seen it for a very very long time.

        I always enjoy him to-but he can do so much more if they would write it for him.

        I miss those 30 second to 1 minute talks at the impala to bring in the story arc so we care about it and remember it. I don’t care about the tablets-haven’t seen or heard about them-must not be too important. I dislike the character of cas and don’t care if he is ever seen on my tv screen ever again but the brothers should mention him and the tablets once in awhile for the audience to care about that story. And I know once again we will get for the 3rd year in a row the season ending cliff hanger will be all about cas once again. GAWD!! I do like s8 though -don’t get me wrong-I have loved all the episodes that haven’t had the angels in them. It just gets frustrating with the story writing sometimes. Would it hurt for the writers to read the back episodes to know where the story is going and keep the stories fluid???

        • http://www.tvovermind.com Clarissa

          I’m afraid I just don’t agree that Dean has basically had “nada” to do since day 1. I feel like he’s been instrumental in every story (even if one year is more Sam-focused, and vice-versa for a Dean year). To me, both of the brothers are crucial to an overall storyline. If Dean hadn’t been there to ground his brother, perhaps season 2 and Sam’s powers might have turned out differently, for example. That doesn’t make Dean a supporting player to me, it makes him an important piece of a bigger puzzle.

          I don’t really feel like Purgatory was a missed opportunity. I don’t think we fully understood it earlier in the season, but it’s clear now that Purgatory and the Amelia storyline were mini-arcs in the season meant for things like character development and to move some things forward.

          I’ll admit, it’s taking them a bit longer to get to the tablet storyline, but that’s the same of any season. Even when there was an apocalypse brewing they took some time to investigate run-of-the-mill cases. I suspect that once we hit episode 14 next week we’ll get more movement and a direction as to where the tablet story will head for the rest of the season.

          • tia

            Clarrisa-yes I agree with you-Dean is the Human side of the supernatural story where all other stories circulate. However for 8 seasons now we have had “what is wrong with Sam”, and “what is wrong with cas” stories. How about this-Dean carried Benny’s soul inside of him to escape from purgatory. How about Dean having an arc about the risidual side effects of having done that? Or since Dean has been to practically every realm that there is –have that make him special in some way that monsters want to kill him for. Something -Anything would be nice.

            But anyway-Clarissa -thank you for the conversation-I loved your article -Edlund is a very interesting person. Strange man. lol. Though I hope somethings go differantly than what they sound like-I am excited about the next couple of episodes.

        • http://www.tvovermind.com Clarissa

          Tia, on this we can agree: Edlund is a very interesting person with a plethora of crazy/awesome ideas! I’m also looking forward to the upcoming episodes. Maybe come visit one of my reviews after more of the mytharc is revealed and we can continue the discussion when we know more about Dean’s role in the storyline.

          • tia

            Clarissa-you got it. I found this thru Winchester Brothers. I look forward to your next review.

        • Peter J

          I don’t miss the Sam and Dean conversations, mostly because I think they’ve been like paint drying in the last few seasons. Until the show convinces me Sam and Dean care about each other (care as in enjoy each other’s company, not Dean shouting SAMMY SAMMY SAMMY like he’s 8 years old), I would rather see Sam and Dean with other people. I’d still like to see them with other people. I just don’t believe the same old angst can drive this show. The last few episodes have only been interesting to me when they have other people, like Charlie, or the demon lady, or even poor doomed Henry.

  • Jessie

    I love this season so far, but I agree that there are some big issues that aren’t being dealt with. First, we have Purgatory: brilliant storyline, finally some good character development for Dean, unfortunately that was over pretty quickly.

    Then there were issues between Sam and Dean which disappeared as well. Just like season 1, Sam gives up on what he really wanted, to stay with Dean, while Dean has to end his friendship with Benny in order to not upset Sam. Of course, Sam and Dean have to be together and I am not saying this sarcastically, but why did Dean have to end his friendship with Benny? Would it really have bothered Sam that much? I don’t think so. Once again, side characters are just dropped off which is a shame because most fans (and I know a lot) love them! Some have/had so much potential: Bella, Benny, Bobby, Castiel, Jo, and so many others.

    Then there’s Castiel. An angel who’s being manipulated and tortured by Naomi, whom we don’t know a lot about. And this is good because it builds suspense, and I want to find out about this. But then we go several episodes without any mention of Naomi or what’s happening with Cas. I hope there’ll be some more mentions about this storyline.

    + Said angel is suicidal, and the last time the boys saw him, he was bleeding from his eye and talking like a robot! Sam and Dean, both sensed something was wrong and talked about it together, considering Cas was being manipulated. And then suddenly…Nothing. They do nothing about it, they go LARPING and well the angel can deal with himself alright. So, how could they be worried about him, and then the next second completely forgetting his existence? I wish I could ask the writers this question. Yes, Castiel will be back, but the fact that there’ll be several episodes without any mentions of him, before he does, shows a lack of continuity in the show, on this matter.

    I completely disagree with people who say that side characters shouldn’t be important, that Benny, the angels and/or Castiel should leave the show. No, because it’s too late for that, especially for Castiel, he’s been too important to be dropped off like he was nothing. The mythology and angel storyline gave so much depth to the show. I don’t see why Cas, or other characters, can’t be part of the show as well. Ex: To that day (and probably forever) I still don’t understand what was the point of killing Bobby, I don’t see it, no matter how hard I try to understand it, it was totally pointless. Of course side characters must be a smaller part of the show, as I totally agree that S&D are the heart of the show. But being the heart of the show doesn’t mean being the only thing in the show.

    PS: I would like to add that my comment here, is not at all a blame to the writer of this article, Clarissa. Of course, it is not her fault or anything :) I just write what I think hoping that the writers themselves may read some comments. And I also feel better when I express myself and find out that a lot of people share the same opinions on the subject.

  • Ramona

    Why are all the Casgirls spamming the comment section? We get it, you don’t want to watch anything without him. Come back when he’s back and taking over the mytharc again and pushing both Sam and Dean to the sidelines.

    Clarissa, good interview and this episode sounds interesting

    • London

      You’re… You’re kidding right? I’m not even a Castiel stan and even I can see that he’s not pushing the brothers to the sidelines, they have always been 100% front and center. Somehow I can’t take this comment seriously because it seems bitter…

      Great job with the article Clarissa.

      • Ramona

        My point is that people who are not interested in the episode that this article is about should stop overrunning the comment section. Edlund had some interesting stuff to say, and half the comments are “BUT WHERE IS CAS!!” Stop being annoying and don’t read the article if it bothers you so much, jeez

        • London

          True, but Cas’ disappearance is still pretty odd in terms of cohesiveness to the story line, and I think a lot of people are genuinely curious. I wonder if he’s not mentioned on purpose or something, because no mention at all is a little jarring. Either way, I’m looking forward to the next episode.

    • Peter J

      I can’t remember Cas ever pushing Sam and Dean aside. I remember a lot of increasingly forced and unbelievable reasons for Cas to not be on the show, to the point where fans have to go around coming up with theories that Sam and Dean have been mindwiped.

  • Dahne

    We haven’t even started the quest so this can’t be a break in the mytharc. Otherwise, I am very excited about the last two episodes and the feeling like we are getting Supernatural back after 10 episodes of out of character Winchesters. I hope the brother rift is gone for good. I also hope that the new Bat Cave tells Dean and Sam that there is a heaven tablet too and how to find it. Who knows? Maybe it could already be there. My biggest hope is that they close the gates of heaven this season so there are no more angel powers left on earth. I don’t need anymore angels. They wore out their welcome in season 5. If they want to keep Misha Collins, then he can be trapped on earth without his powers. Next season I hope they close the Purgatory gates or whatever the third tablet is going to be. Then we can end season 10 and Supernatural as a whole the way it started – Winchesters vs. demons. The biggest perk to this order is that we could still have Crowley around until the series finale. Now if we could just find out what the writers did with Crowley’s snark. We really need it back.

    • Peter J

      I think the angels are still effective when they are written for. Samandriel was heartbreaking, and Naomi is a great villain. We barely see these characters, because the show apparently has little interest in the tablets and is instead chasing fifty other plotlines. I would go as far as to say Naomi is one of the best villains they’ve had in the last few seasons.

      I would prefer Cas stay on Earth (but then that would mean actually seeing him…), but I think the angels still have potential. If I’m tired of anything on the show, besides Sam and Dean angsting and repeating old plots, it’s the demons. That demon woman last week was so much fun she made me remember just how kick-ass the demons were in the first two seasons and how much I miss them. Crowley doesn’t cut it.

      • Dahne

        I’m with Krikpe who wanted to get rid of the angels in Swan Song. I don’t think they have been effective since then. Season 6 was all about getting Misha time in whether it made sense to have Cas on screen or not. Season 7 gave us Hester and crew. Thank goodness Meg and Edgar took care of those for us. Naomi is marginally interesting but only for the angel tablet mystery. Once they close the gates of heaven that story line is over. I never understood why anyone cared one jot for Samandriel. As fro Cas, I’d prefer he be locked up in heaven too but since that won’t happen unless Misha gets offered a main part in another season I’ll settle for him to be powerless, human if you will.

        We’ll just have to agree to disagree about Crowley because I think Mark Sheppard saves almost every episode he’s in. I do agree that Crowley’s lost that snarky wit he was mostly known for in previous episodes and I’d like to get that back. Other than that, I’m good with ending where we began, a personal quest to destroy the demons who destroyed their family and lvies.

        • Peter J

          I felt like season 6 actually used Cas far less than he could have been used – I felt like the show’s main goal was to make viewers less interested in the character and his relationships, and to just palm him off in abstract stories until he could be dumped. In spite of this, Cas had one of the only stories I was able to care about in that season – the rest was Dean wringing his hands over Sam (the same place we seem to be in now).

          I think Crowley works in a funny supporting role but even by last season I thought this had stretched somewhat thin. I want to see demons who are frightening and tough and wild. If they can bring that back and find a role for Crowley too, I’d be happy, but I don’t think he’s served a purpose since his deal with Cas over Purgatory.

          Samandriel was an innocent, which is something the show hasn’t had in a long time, and something viewers responded to. I think the reaction to him showed that SPN no longer seems to know what their fans may want. I don’t believe fans want constant reminders of how damaged Sam is and how much of the show must involve Dean worrying over Sam, who is, depending on the episode, the toughest, smartest guy around, or the most damaged, broken, special guy around. Yet we are back there again, like clockwork.

          I don’t care if Cas is powerless as long as he’s on the show more often and they remember his relationships with other characters. When he’s not there I feel the show grind to a halt. For me, Cas is family, a part of a family with Sam and Dean. When they are alone, Sam and Dean have not seemed like that to each other since season 3, and I don’t think the show knows how to sell it.

          • http://www.tvovermind.com Clarissa

            Peter – with regards to your comment elsewhere on this page about another interviewer saying Singer hinted Sam will do the trials (I don’t get this lack of “reply button” when you move further to the right….), I will tell you what I told Destiny: that it’s clear that this stems from the wildly taken out of context “vendetta” quote from Singer and that if someone hinted that it means Sam will complete the trials, nothing I heard in that interview actually *confirms* that. The *point* of that conversation had only to do with Sam’s commitment to hunting. The trials weren’t ever brought up by Singer or in this context, or I would have said something about them (the word was only ever uttered once by an interviewer who was speaking about the storyline in generalities).

            Maybe Sam *does* do the trials. I don’t know. But I can tell you that Singer didn’t confirm it. He didn’t hint at it and he didn’t speculate on it. Any conclusions are being drawn by people who have misinterpreted what he said or lost the context of the quote.

          • Peter J

            I checked several times and didn’t see any confirmation about the trials in your interview. In another interview, I think maybe Huffington Post, the interviewer mentioned that Sam was doing the trials, and there didn’t seem to be any disagreement from Singer.

            Thank you for clearing some of this up.

          • http://www.tvovermind.com Clarissa

            Peter, you’re talking about Laura’s transcript of the talk in the Huffington Post site. I’ve read it. It’s a word-for-word account of the interview. But I also know the person who asked the question and the question was poorly worded (it happens to all of us), but it wasn’t actually confirmation that SAM is doing the trials. The actual question was “A minute ago, you were talking about Sam kind of adding to the geeky aspects of his legacy and obviously he’s getting involved in the trials and everything….”

            She used the word “trials” to denote the tablet quest as a whole. Singer’s response also didn’t single out Sam as the one doing the trials. Look, bad word choices happen. They happen to me as well. There’s about 10 different ways of phrasing each question and sometimes the subtle difference can result in a different answer (this is more commonly displayed in a courtroom setting). Singer obviously know what the interviewer was asking, as did the rest of us. But there’s no way to fully avoid this (even, apparently, when you provide nothing but transcripts) unless every single fan is in the room or there’s only video provided so that you can more accurately judge the nuances of a response. Don’t take absolutely everything at face value. Sometimes inflection and context are the most important things. You can’t judge the impact and pace of a conversation solely based a transcript.

          • Peter J

            Clarissa, thanks for finding this extra info. I think given Dean’s history with hellhounds, Dean fighting a hellhound would be a wonderful writing choice, a way for him to finally conquer one of his greatest fears. When the episode photos just showed him kissing some woman, and when I saw those interviews, I had started to assume Sam does the trial while Dean is there to look pretty. I am hoping now with your clarification on that HuffPo interview that this won’t be the case.

    • Dana

      Couldn’t agree more about the angels Dahne.
      I find the continued use of angels not very imagiative, and do believe after Swan Song they should have been written out of the show, and Crowley should have become a regular or at least appear in 15 episodes each season, and of course Bobby should’n have been killed.

      But since Carver and the writers can’t let go of the angels, and don’t seem to bring Bobby back (okay even for SPN bringing Bobby back would be unbelieveable, unfortuneatly *sigh*) we have to endure that, and hope the “Men of Letters” plot will expand. Hopefully we get to see more Crowley, Mark does improve each episode he is in. :)

      • Peter J

        Bobby was one of the few characters I thought had the right exit at the right time; I just wish they hadn’t done that depressing ghost story (I know they had to “let go” of his ghost, but I didn’t like the whole crazy vengeful story).

  • C

    Geez, some of you people seriously need to chill out and remember it’s only a TV show . . .

  • Peter J

    I feel like Sam is being reset back to factory settings. Sam is the smartest (“the brains”). Sam’s back at Stanford. Rinse and repeat. The intervening years have told Sam that his life at Stanford was an illusion, suckering him into doing Lucifer’s bidding. The intervening years have also tried to tell us, repeatedly, that Sam loves hunting and is an awesome hunter. Now it’s back to “the brains” finding a life in a book while “the brawn” does…what does he do? I think he hangs up posters. So Sam is at Stanford while Dean is in Full House.

    I don’t care about revisiting the idea of smart Sammy until Sam regains a heart and a pulse. I have not seen either of those with Sam this season. Suddenly making him relevant because apparently he’s the main one who can read a book is trying to take him back to a place he likely can no longer go.

    Ben Edlund is a wonderful writer but I don’t know where he’s gone the last few seasons. “Hello Cruel World” was an episode where Jensen Ackles and the director actually had to invent a key scene (Jensen apparently had no idea why Dean wouldn’t have more of a reaction to Cas dying). “Blood Brothers” had a hackneyed story that reminded me of why I skip most vampire shows. The Purgatory flashbacks (the story we were barely even supposed to care about since it didn’t have the brothers) made it work. “Reading is Fundamental” was a mess of an episode that reduced Dean and Sam to bystanders (when Dean wasn’t being berated for destroying all of humanity), one I mostly remember for Meg knifing that annoying, ranting angel woman.

    Maybe all this stuff will play out better onscreen but it sounds like a mess. I miss when Edlund wrote about the characters I know.

  • http://thesnowleopard.net Paula R. Stiles

    MLIS geek note: It’s not a library. It’s an archive. A library collects published material in various media, organizes it via a catalogue, and may include an archive. An archive collects all sorts of material, including manuscripts and physical objects, and organizes it via finding aids. They may look the same to the uneducated eye, but they are very different in their structures, their purposes and how they control access. And what the writers have described, including within “As Time Goes By” itself and this interview, is clearly an archive.

    • http://www.tvovermind.com Clarissa

      Paula, my apologies! Your comment is completely valid and thanks for the lesson :) The writers have a tendency to refer to it as a library and I’ve gone along with it, but I’ll make a point to clarify it as an archive going forward!

  • Yim (@yim_happy)

    Nice interview Clarissa. Did Edlund talk to a group of Journalists?

    I don’t read many media articles anymore. A lot of the questions seem similar, and I rarely hear anything new or interesting. I used to long to ask a wild question just to mix things up, and not a request for spoilers.

    But this interview I learned about Thule. :) Plus, Edlund always has something to say that enriches things.

    • http://www.tvovermind.com Clarissa

      Yim, yes, there was a group of us on the call. And I learned about Thule too. They sound very creepy! I’m interested to see Supernatural’s take on them.

  • Thomas

    Man, all this hate is kind of pissing me off. When hasn’t Edlund delivered a fantastic outing? I really don’t get what people see when they saw Dean’s getting short changed. This season he’s had the Purgatory plot, which took, if I recall, 8 episodes to fully finish, and then the Benny story line, which you know will be coming up again in the future, plus gave us a whole damn episode of just that relationship. Seriously people, calm down. I’m sure Ben will give us a great episode as he always does.

    • http://www.tvovermind.com Clarissa

      Terrific point! Ben Edlund consistently delivers on some great episodes and I, for one, can’t wait to see this one.

    • Loli(“v”)

      it took a few minutes in 8 episodes to finish. And if you’re gonna dedicate an entire episode exploring a relationship, why would you drop it out of the sudden and expect us to move on?? So, I find these “complaints’ that are pissing you off legitimate and deserve to be addressed.

  • Steph C

    I’ve been so terrified for Cas and so frustrated with the lack of information I haven’t been able to enjoy the series much since Torn & Frayed.

    I enjoyed Charlie’s episode somewhat, but I know I would have loved both 8.11 and 8.12 if I wasn’t constantly worried about what was happening with Cas. (I barely managed to sit through 8.12 and I know I’m not going to be able to sit through 8.13, even though it’s an Edlund episode and those are usually amazing.) I’ll probably enjoy them very much if I eventually rewatch the season, though.

    As it is, I’m dying for any scrap of information on Cas and really, really hopeful that he’ll be a regular in S9 (and that the whole ‘Cas is suicidal’ thing doesn’t just get dropped. That really needs to be addressed.) I know he’ll be back this season (for three episodes. God, I hope they’re not just cameos again), but we have no idea when (the current theory is 8.17, since Misha said he wasn’t back by 8.15).

    Cas is important for more than just the tablet plotline. He’s just important, fullstop.

  • Judy H

    I’m gonna stay far, far away from the constant Samgirl/Deangirl infighting because it makes my acid reflux flare up. I just have to say, Clarissa, that I enjoyed your article, as I do all your SPN efforts.
    I also have to say: of all the points made, Edlund’s comment about the golem actor’s voice sounding like “a church bell rolling down a hill” was fabulous. He should put that in his resume (LOL).

    • http://www.tvovermind.com Clarissa

      Judy, thanks so much for the kind words about my SPN articles. Much appreciated!

      Edlund was incredibly enthusiastic about the actor playing the Golem and had nothing but terrific things to say about him (like that great line you quoted!) and I, for one, can’t wait to see the episode. Edlund’s particular brand of magic rarely fails :)

  • http://supernaturalislife.com Vicki

    I’m getting tired of people wishing the writers would dwell on topics that are already done. What else can you say about Purgatory? *Oh, it’s beautiful*. If beauty was all that it was, they should film Jared and Jensen ona runway for 40 minutes.
    *Where is Cas?* The show isn’t about Cas. You guys should pray for the whole spin-off thingy. I think he’ll come back when it’s time, when his presence is necessary.
    Thanks, Clarissa! I love your articles. You’re always to the point and always a fan with a mind.

    • Peter J

      I don’t want them to talk about Purgatory in interviews as much as I wish they’d dealt with the story a little longer on the show itself. It was a cool story, probably the best story I’ve seen on the show since season 4. The show seemed to be surprised that the fans enjoyed the story, and their interviews mostly focus on Sam.

      • Loli(“v”)

        exactly. If they’re surprised that the viewers liked that story then I’m sorry to say that they don’t know what works on the show and what doesn’t. Purgatory is such an amazing place to take the show to and the possibilities can be massive. and I don’t accept the budget issues as a justification coz they could’ve spent the cash on purgatory rather than wasting money,air & time on epis like Bitten and Gods bidding and LARPING after big plot reveals. Yet they speak a lot about Sam and Amelia, aka the most boring storyline in the series. and keep pushing and pushing for it and express on more than one occasion how much they loved Amelia and how that story was exciting. Me I”m going “huh?! exciting???? what show are you talking about?” .. aaaaaahh *sigh*

  • Jen

    Sounds like it could be interesting, but I’m getting more than a little frustrated with the continuous stalling of the tablet storyline. How many eps have we even had that center around that? I feel like I’m being fed a 5 course meal one crumb at a time. I really want to see Cas back too and am bothered by the fact that his statement of feeling suicidal was treated as a non-issue. Not a good message to send to viewers, IMO. If they had handled that better before he left, or at least mentioned concern, I think I would be in more of a mindset to enjoy the filler eps.

    • tia

      That whole conversation about cas wanting to kill himself was a joke and a half- suicide is something an angel would NEVER think about. It was stupid stupid writing. a suicidal angel-Really??? Gawd..

  • http://winestainedlife.com Erin

    I’ve seen several people bring up Cas’ suicidal thoughts but I’m not sure that’s being seen as an issue any longer. He told Dean in 8×10 that his penance was going well, well enough to turn Angel Radio back on. We all know that this is Naomi’s manipulation but Dean doesn’t. The boys think he’s fine. So they’re not brushing anything under the rug. And I’m not sure how Naomi’s powers over Cas’ mind are working but do you think she would order him back to heaven and then watch him kill himself? As far as he is concerned, he has a job to do and that is probably his main focus at the moment.

    • Peter J

      The last time Dean saw Cas, he had just had a complete breakdown in front of Sam and Dean (one which they probably couldn’t just blame on sigils), and he had killed someone who meant a great deal to him. He then vanished with barely an explanation to Dean, who looked terrified. Even when Dean knows nothing about Naomi, I don’t believe he would just say, OK, Cas is fine, he said he was fine. Dean would be worried. Instead, Dean has to just pretend Cas never existed, because the show is perpetually frightened by the idea of mentioning Cas in episodes where he does not appear, even if his being mentioned would help move the story along and give an emotional weight to the show. Emotional weight doesn’t have to always be Sam + Dean. That was the whole point of Team Free Will, and why viewers embraced them.

      • Shannon

        I really don’t understand why everyone is so upset about the lack of Dean and Sam talking about Cas. Given the concern after he vanished, I’m pretty sure they’re still working on trying to figure out what is going on with him. However, it wouldn’t make any sense for the writers to throw in a random, plot-stalling conversation that basically consists of:

        “Find anything about what’s happening with Cas?”
        “Not yet. I have no idea what this could be. If there are other angels controlling him, what can we do?”
        “I don’t know. We’ll keep looking. I hope he’s okay.”

        There really isn’t anything Sam and Dean can do until they know what is going on, and even then they would probably need that angel tablet or help from an angel because they can’t really get to heaven (short of dying, which seems counterproductive). He’ll be mentioned when someone actually finds something useful, or when he comes back. Until then, there isn’t much the guys can say or do about him in an episode. Mostly I’m just glad they didn’t decide he’d gone evil/crazy again, because given their history, I wouldn’t have blamed them.

        Other than that, this season is pretty cool so far. I hope Dean will also have a big part in the story arc, too, since by the interview it can be assumed that Sam will have a role.

  • Karen Dawson

    Supernatural season 8 has been awesome, Cas will be back so grow up, every other season since he joined we went for most of the season without seeing him and there were never these petty quotes. We all know he is a big deal in the closing of hells gates.

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