Supernatural: How and Why Fans Are Trying to Save Castiel

Supernatural CastielI’ve spent a fair bit of time in the last few months writing about online fandom, because it’s a topic that holds a lot of interest for me. I started with some observations after the TV Guide cover poll and recently ended with the results of an online fandom survey we did in conjunction with a university student.

Supernatural won that survey, which didn’t surprise a lot of people. It has a very passionate and devoted online (and off-line) fandom. So it shouldn’t come as a surprise that when some members of the fandom got worried about the fate of one of their favorite characters – Castiel – after the recent season finale, they decided to do something about it.

If you were online after the two-part season 6 finale you might have noticed that some Supernatural fans weren’t happy about the fact that their favorite angel had “fallen from grace”, as it were, and was no longer going to be a regular character in season 7. First there were the tweets directed at the show’s official Twitter and other actors/writers working on Supernatural. But after a while, the individual fans started getting more organized – and a bit calmer – and decided to come up with other ways to get their point across. One of them is the Save Castiel campaign. Another is the Letters to Castiel movement. These past few days I spoke to a key rep of the Save Cas campaign, people involved in the Letters to Cas movement, fellow writers and the owners of a few Supernatural fansites to try and get to the bottom of how the fandom feels about recent developments and what they’d like to see for the future of their favorite show.

Before we discuss, let’s recognize one simple fact: we don’t actually know what will happen with Castiel in season 7. Yes, showrunner Sera Gamble has said that Misha Collins will not be a regular next season. She also recently told TV Line about the desire to tell a new story for next season: “We just want to tell a good story and not be redundant and bring you interesting stories that are fresh. Going into Season 7, we have a new, interesting story that we want to tell to you. That’s what’s front of mind right now.’

None of that definitively says whether Castiel will die, exit the show in another manner, be redeemed in the premiere, become next season’s big bad or have a storyline I haven’t considered yet. All we do know is the official CW’s description for next season: “In season seven, the Winchesters will find themselves in an increasingly sinister, changing landscape, up against a new foe unlike anything they’ve ever fought. They’ll find their old tricks, weapons and hiding places all rendered useless. All they’ll have is each other. And the certainty that, like the last of the cowboy outlaws, whatever they face, they’re not going down without a fight.”

But in light of the uncertainty, let me explain why some fans are fighting for his life.

What ‘Save Castiel’ Wants to Accomplish

I spent an hour on the phone with Monica from the Save Castiel campaign, where we discussed our favorite angel, season 6 and character motivations. I always enjoy talking Supernatural with fellow fans, especially since so few of my off-line friends watch the show. The Save Castiel campaign would ultimately like Cas not to die (or leave the show). However, they have a healthy respect for the show wanting to tell its own story, so in the event that it is necessary that Castiel depart, they would prefer that it is in a manner befitting the character and his history. And that said departure be preceded by a “redemption” of the character that included Sam and Dean – particularly Dean – helping to “save” him and redeem him for his recent actions.

Nothing about the campaign, apparently, is meant to be an opinion on the contract status of Misha Collins. Clearly it’s impossible to ultimately divide the actor and the character, but there’s a line nonetheless. No one is asking that he appear in every episode or be reinstated as a regular.

Letters to Castiel

Some fans have decided to put pen to paper (or fingers to keyboard, as it were) and came up with a nice way to express their love for the character. The Letters to Castiel webpage was created by a fan named Megan.

I spoke to Monnie, who’s been helping Megan with this project, and she took the time to tell me more about why it was started and how they put these letters in Misha’s hands: “When Megan first started the Letters to Castiel website, I think she was just looking to have an outlet where online friends could go to express their feelings, to focus on what it is that we love so much about this character. I think at that point a lot of us were still struggling to come to terms with what had happened on the show, and when she told me about the site I jumped on the bandwagon of promoting it. I really don’t think she or anyone realized it would get as big as it did. Once we saw how many letters were pouring in, I offered to Megan to have the letters printed out so that they could be given to Misha at the Supernatural convention in Nashville earlier this month. She and I got to talking, one thing led to another, and what started out as just printing the letters out & handing them to him became printing and binding and putting them into a fancy leather notebook. We wanted him to have a nice keepsake, something to help him understand and remember how much his character has affected us and how much he means to us.”

Cas (and Misha) fans are not a small percentage of the viewers. There are a lot of people who love the character. That doesn’t mean they would all stop watching if the character disappeared. Nor are they not “real” fans of Supernatural because they have a preference for one character over another, as Save Castiel’s Monica assured me. But it is, sometimes, difficult to reconcile warring factions of the fandom. Which leads us to…

Opposing Sides: What’s the Show Really About?

It’s my experience that Supernatural can be a tricky fandom sometimes, with an occasional spot of in-fighting. You’ve got the SamGirls, the DeanGirls and the CasGirls. Then there are girls like me who love them all. But occasionally the fans will be upset about different aspects of the show: some Dean fans are miffed about what they perceive is a lack of a solid Dean storyline for the last little while, for example. In the end, though, it’s important to remember that no matter which character you might like, this is a show that we all love, so there’s no reason we can’t all get along (won’t someone think of the children?!).

But the issue of how Castiel fits into the show is actually a sub-sect of a much larger discussion on what (and who) the show is really about. No one really disputes the fact that Supernatural is the story of Sam and Dean Winchester. How can we, when they were the first (and will likely be the last) characters we see on our screens? However, I think many of us would be hard-pressed to deny that the show is only about the Winchester brothers. Since the first season there has always been a larger mythology, and goal, at work. First the boys were on a quest to find their father. Eventually they were working to save the entire planet.

If you really think about it, this show is technically about the entire Winchester family. If Mary hadn’t died in the way that she did (whether it was to set up Sam as Lucifer’s vessel or not), then there would be no justifiable reason why John raised his children to be hunters and you wouldn’t have Supernatural at all. So the story is bigger than just Sam and Dean.

We have to recognize that in the course of the last 6 years, the Supernatural universe has grown exponentially. I’m not just talking about the fact that we’ve dealt with the existence of such grandiose beings as God and Death. No, let’s go smaller than that. I’m talking about all of the people who have touched Sam and Dean’s lives. People like Jessica and Bobby, Ellen and Jo. Hell, even the bad guys like Crowley. All of these people are fundamental to the Supernatural story and they should not be criticized for taking the focus from Sam and Dean. Because the truth is, they all interact with the Winchester brothers and they all, in one way or another, are integral to Sam and Dean’s story.

Concluded on next page…

  • Casseio

    I am one of those who believes the show is about two brothers and that relationship should be the core of the show.  That is what brought me to the series in the first place and I never thought Collins should have been made a cast regular, but I do like his Castiel and will be fine as a guest star. 

    Being a guest star has it's benefits as Jim Beaver mentioned in his latest article, and he (as a guest star on the show) was in more episodes in s6 that Misha was as a regular. 

    Also fans have to realize that the show can not continue with the mytharc.  It is very old now and the continuation of it for 3 years has cost the show a lot of viewers.  For me it should have end after a year.  With the end of it, we also lose a lot of other good myth characters, Balthazar, Gabriel, Chuck et.al.   It's not just Cas that will be affected.

    • Clarissa

      I agree, I think having Castiel as a guest star next season will be perfectly fine.  He's never appeared in every episode anyway.  And yes, you're right that we have lost many wonderful characters while the angel storyline played out.

      • kim debyah

        FYI: The "angel storyline" may be played out, but certainly NOT the castiel one. You cant truly be a fan if you dont understand his importance. This has grown from a show not only about family, but about friendship. It, like Cas, is important indeed.

        • Kate

          IA, very much. The brothers remain the core and tbh I don't understand how anyone can think otherwise given how little Castiel has appeared this season. Despite what the naysayers want to push, there's no way the angels have "taken over" this story… even within the mytharc the brothers have remained the core. The mytharc can still continue in the background of S7 – it can't simply be forgotten, like it never existed. Nor can Castiel, who is important to both brothers. I think he brings a lot to the show and without him, the prospect of two hulking great men angsting over each other to an unhealthy degree isn't very interesting to me.

        • Rogue

          You can't truly be a fan if you don't like how overplayed Castiel's story line is? What a load of horse crap. He is a secondary character, sweetie. And he always will be. The show existed for four years before he happened along.

          That's not to say I, personally, don't love Castiel. I think he's made a perfectly amazing addition to the show. But his arc has played out. They NEED to move onto something else because the reason he's even on the show is gone. That ship has sailed and he has to do something else. How can they continue with the direction he was going in when there's no reason for him to? Would you like to see Cas downgraded to ONLY the boys' angel/bodyguard/help?

    • SueP

      I completely agree with you. Kripke and Gamble have both stated time and time again that in the Supernatural Universe, Dean and Sam are the center. The other characters are satellites and drift in and out of the picture. We've lost some wonderful characters and beloved villains, but that is what is supposed to happen. Castiel was never intended to become a fixture and I do believe with the wrap up of the Heaven/Hell/Apocalypse storyline, his character is no longer as important to the central mythology of the show. Whatever direction they decide to go in season 7, if angels — or Castiel specifically — does not have a logical place, I would hope they let him go and not try to shoe-horn him in in a way that won't benefit the show or make sense to the story. (hopefully they learned that with Bela!) So while I did enjoy Cas and Misha for the whole of seasons 4 & 5, I thought he was forced into the story in season 6. Hopefully, if he's kept around, it's for a real reason. whether he's redeemed or not doesn't matter. The boys' lives are spun around disappointment. The Winchesters don't get what they want, that's part of what makes them heroes.

      • M.

        Why not kill Bobby then?  It's silly to have him around considering any demon with two neurons would just wait at the scrapyard and wait for them to show up.  Or even just possess Bobby and use him as bait.

        But of course, there would be arguments that he's family and they need him.  I say that they need Castiel even more in that he's not only been a friend but if he explodes or goes up in flames, what's keeping Heaven stable?  Who's going to make sure the brothers' afterlives are any better than they were in Dark Side of the Moon.  Killing Castiel basically destroys all hope of even the time after death not sucking.

        • kim debyah

          Ok, excuse me. You cant just run around saying stuff like "why not kill Bobby then". Surely, you jest. Please dont give the writers any more bad ideas like that. Bobby is a key character. He is, in escense, the "father figure" for sam and dean. We already had to suffer the loss of their Real daddy John, dont u dare touch Bobby. The boys need him and SO DO WE!

      • Kate

        The Winchesters don’t get what they want, that’s part of what makes them heroes.

        Just this once, I'd like them to get what they want! :-D

        Because heroes should get to save people once in a while. Hopefully that will be Castiel.

    • xan

      I still fail to see how Castiel having proper storylines and being an important character on the show would take away from the Winchesters in anyway. These two are NOT MUTUALLY EXLUSIVE, PEOPLE.

      Like.. seriously. I see people crying 'but the show's core is the brothers!' and I don't know whether to laugh or cry at their reading comprehension skills. No one has claimed otherwise. *facepalm*

    • Angie

      Agree. We had way cooler angels than Castiel on the show and we had to say goodbye to them, why should Cas be any different? Because Misha has a big fanbase? I don't believe the show's purpose should be only 'satisfy the fans'. That's not what I think Supernatural is about. The only indispensable characters are Sam and Dean (and Bobby to an extent because he has been there from s1).

      Honestly, I wouldn't be too sad to see Cas gone, or at least have his presence reduced. He was basically useless during all s5 and up till the God-Cas reveal on the finale. The angel storyline has already long reached its peak, in my opinion. After the brothers deal with God-Cas, I don't think there'd be much more to explore.

      • Agnes Nutter

        You know who else has been here since Season 1?  Meg.  I don't think it matters how long a character has been on the show, or even how popular they are–Meg is still around even though her story arc has been over for ages, and she's certainly not my favorite character.  Sorry Eric.  :

        I believe that Castiel is still relevant because he, much like Bobby, has been absorbed into the family.  We're still hearing Dean talk about John and Mary even though they're long dead; imagine how long we'd be hearing about Cas if they write him out of the show!  Much better to keep and redeem the character before too much damage is done than ditch him and have a season or more of Dean angsting about his betrayal and/or death.  I had enough of Dean's death!angst after John died and WAY more than enough betrayal!angst in regards to Sammy.  Just once, I'd like a story arc where Dean ISN'T one step away from writing bad poetry in a diary.  Make Cas have a horribly humiliating de-Godifying and do some "I was power high and not thinking straight and now I've come down I feel like an idiot" apologies.  Then we can have Dean do some "Dude, all humans make mistakes, your mistakes just happen to be bigger because you are superhuman; but hey, at least your mistakes didn't bring about the Apocalypse like Sammy's and mine did!" talks.  Now THAT would be a nice change from previous seasons.  It would also give Dean something constructive to do in Season 7 to make up for what he lacked in Season 6.

        That said, Castiel as an angel ISN'T relevant anymore.  The angelic story arc is stale, even I'll admit that.  I love Cas, but I don't think he can stay an angel if he's going to remain in the story.  So either he gets to be God (come on, no way is that going to last!), or God (who is still alive last Joshua checked) or the Anti-Christ (is he still surfing in Australia?) or something else turns Castiel mortal.  I'm sure mortality would work out much better for him now than it did in "The End," since there's no Apocalypse-hardened Dean to warp him.  In fact, he's got a nice, always-faithful brother figure now–plus Sam and Bobby, assuming they forgive him for being an idjut.  I think it would be good for Cas to power down so he can learn that he DOESN'T have to be an all-powerful God for his family to love him (since most of his motivations during Season 6 WERE about his love for them).

        Wow, I'm longwinded…  Changing subjects slightly, I do wonder what the focus is going to be in future seasons (assuming there's anything past Season 7).  We need to move away from God and angels and such, but that's kind of a hard act to follow.  Any thoughts?

        • lucy

          You've got some great ideas going there, I agree with just about everything you say!  and yeah Dean angst is getting old.  It would be cool if Dean was the one with his head together keeping both Sam and Cas from wallowing in selfpity.  Angsty Dean might be overused by now, but strong and supportive Dean is something I will never get enough of! <3

          • Kate

            IA with both of you: I'd love to see Dean use his smarts to help redeem Cas, and a team of professional writers should be able to think up a good way to include Cas in the storyline after that happens (like so many commenters here have) – otherwise they shouldn't be writing for the show, imo.

          • Kate

            IA with both of you: I’d love to see Dean use his smarts to help redeem Cas, and a team of professional writers should be able to think up a good way to include Cas in the storyline after that happens (like so many commenters here have) ó otherwise they shouldn’t be writing for the show, imo.

        • Marianne N.

          Why are you not sending this to Kripke and Gamble?!!!  They need to hear this!  This is EXACTLY what I want to see happen next season!

          • Rogue

            UM. No. No you don't need to send this to them. The reason the show sucked so hard in season 6 was because of fanservice.

      • Kate

        Because Misha has a big fanbase? I don’t believe the show’s purpose should be only ‘satisfy the fans’.

        ????

        If the show wants to be successful in the ratings and stay on the air it does indeed have to satisfy the fans.

        • Bill-ie

          Right, because the 1.5 million regular viewers that bailed after Castiel was introduced helped the ratings.  NOT!

          • Marianne N.

            I doubt those viewers are going to start watching the show again just because Castiel is kicked out.  Those viewers are gone, and doing away with a character that IS liked by most of the current viewers isn't going to bring the old viewers back.

            Besides, you can't prove that Castiel is the reason those viewers left in the first place.  Personally, I suspect it was the Christian focus of the storyline; I know my father, as an agnostic, was much less enthralled by the show when he felt it placed one religion over all others.  On the other hand, he really liked Castiel as a character because he was the only angel to question what was dictated to him and try to figure things out for himself.

          • charlotte

            If I remember correctly when Cas was introduced in season 4, the ratings went up..not down. 

            Also, ratings for Sam episode Unforgiven season 6…1.97million, compare with Cas episode The Man Who Would be King season 6…2.11 million.  These are facts, and they speak for themselves. Cas is equally popular…and those who don't like him are out numbered..sorry!

             

             

    • kim debyah

      ALright, first of all: Yes, the show is about the Winchester Brothers and how strong their bond is, etc. Dont get me wrong, i love the boys. BUT….. the world has fallen for Castiel. He has, through no fault of his own, over-shadowed the Winchesters and has become an Ultimate fan favorite. We cant help ourselves. Give him the credit he deserves. He is witty, sexy, mysterious and has awesome on-screen chemistry with Jensen Ackles (absolutley no sexual meaning to that whatsoever). He just makes the show even BETTER. And those gorgeous, deep blue eyes are so full of expression i believe every damn thing he has to say! Dont mess with our Cas!

      • http://dahne1.blogspot.com Dahne

        I'd love to see the statistics or poll or whatever shows that Castiel is now more popular than either of the Winchester brothers.  I simply don't see that happening.  Misha is tremendously popular but Cas will never outshine Dean or Sam.

    • RyanWinchestor

      Try to look at it this way people,  fighting anything but UBER powerful demons pretty much is cast out of the show once you have a badass angel following them around saving their asses CONSTANTLY.  

      The shows fake sure, but c'mon Sam and Dean look like poons that would be sliced and diced the first day after Cas ditched them. 

  • angel_kink

    I love this article and I love you.  I'll be waiting anxiously all summer hoping and praying (lol) that Castiel gets what I feel he deserves.  If it's the end of his story, fine, but he deserves to go out with some respect.  Of course, I'd prefer that this ISN'T the end of his story.  I want him to be redeemed.  I want him to stick around.  But whatever happens, I just hope he gets treated with respect.

  • angel_kink

    p.s. someone send this article to Gamble and Kripke STAT

  • rowena

    This is a great article.  Count me among the viewers who would love Castiel to stick around if it serves the larger story of Sam and Dean.  However, I do think the angel storyline needs to be over.  It feels at times that it overwhelms the human aspect of the show.  While I thoroughly loved the finale, it was very much a case of the main characters being powerless while the supporting (and much more powerful) characters determined the fate of the world.  That is fine for brief moments, but in the long run it just won't work within the confines of the show (and the budget).

    There is just no way for the writers to please everyone.  No matter what happens some part of fandom will be left upset.  The writers just need to tell the story they want to tell.

    • Bianca

      I think that the angel storyline is okay when it's a supporting arc. I'd much rather see the show do other things like in seasons 1-3, and have Castiel busy with his angel storyline independent of the Winchesters, and to have the two occasionally cross paths every once in a while (like The Third Man). It keeps everything in moderation, it keeps the story interesting and unpredictable, and it lends a way to keep Castiel alive without making him a regular.

    • http://dahne1.blogspot.com Dahne

      I don't want Cas to stick around, at least not as an angel, for precisely this point.  The Winchesters have become spectators in their own story.  That lessens the tension and quite frankly makes it less fun.

  • Kate

    Thanks so much for such a well-balanced argument, Clarissa, over a topic that all-too-quickly devolves into childish name-calling and harassment when it gets debated online. I hope that doesn't happen here.

    I've been a fan of Supernatural and loved it as no other TV show I've ever watched, since day one. And while initially it was all about the brothers, Castiel has become a vital character for me. Since you've quoted Sera Gamble here, I question her comments implying that Cas and his storyline are "redundant," and her apparent perception that his fanbase may be superfluous to the show – which I want to stress is just my totally subjective interpretation of what she has thus far said on the matter. And I'm afraid I can't fathom how the strongly telegraphed regression to the stifling brothers-only dynamic of the first three seasons can possibly be "fresh." I suspect a return to the same tired old tropes that were causing the show's ratings to fall in season 3.

    It should be eminently possible for a team of professional writers to come up with a reasonable way to include Castiel as a recurring character in season 7. We're not asking for him to ride around in the back of the Impala – just, as you've laid out so diplomatically, for him and his fans (who, after all, impact the ratings) to be given the respect they deserve, via a redemption arc that sees some really meaty recurring appearances.

    I read comments screeching for Castiel to be held down and executed – and that, for me, runs so counter to Sam and Dean's integrity and moral code, especially given their own past mistakes. I don't want to watch the Winchesters hunt down and cold-bloodedly kill their friend, nor do I think it would be in-character of them to do so. Castiel has sacrificed everything for Dean and Dean's cause. Sam and Dean had already given everything to stop Apocalypse #1 – is it any wonder Castiel would have been so driven to ensure their sacrifices didn't get wasted? He has made huge mistakes, for which he should be held totally accountable – but his actions were directed to the common good. It's an excuse often made for Sam, and one I support fully in regard to Sam. But Sam was forgiven, and within the show's own themes of forgiveness and brotherhood, which came through very strongly this season, Castiel should be forgiven. Dean described him as like a brother and handed out blanket absolution. I would really like to hope that means something in whatever story arc is being plotted out for season 7.

    Finally (and I hope you don't mind such a long comment!) I just want to say that I agree so hard with Mo Ryan's observation about how bleak the Winchesters' world has become. They lose everyone. And what is the point of their struggle if everyone they love dies? Can they not win this fight, for the friend they both care about? I used to be one of those fans who dreamed about Sam and Dean driving off a cliff together at the end of this series, like in Thelma and Louise. I used to think it was romantic. But now I think it's depressing, and I want nothing more than to see this show end with all of Team Free Will alive and sharing a beer together.

    <!–EndFragment–>

    • Kate

      LOL, that went crazy! Clarissa, maybe you can delete all that formatting crap? ;-)

    • CassBoy

      Totally agree with you! Your last paragraph was awesome. No more to say!

    • Julia

      You seem to forget that Cas tore down Sam's wall, before he became "evil" with the souls.  He did this willfully, to distract Dean.   What Cas did was so bad it would be something that Azazel would have done, and goes miles beyond anything Sam has ever done.  There's really no comparison.  Sam didn't kill friends and allies on his way toward his goal, the way Cas killed his lieutenant in the Western Ep. (don't remember her name), Balthazar and who knows how many others.  Sam didn't hurt a loved one as part of a strategy, the way Cas hurt him.   I just don't think that Cas is redeemable.  If the writers ever attempted to do it, it would have to start with asking forgiveness from Sam, and that would mean some pretty great dialogue between Sam and Cas.  Problem is, the writers don't seem that interested in that relationship, and Cas' greatest sins aren't Dean's to forgive.  

      I don't know.  I really liked the finale, including the cliffhanger with Cas.  I think that he'd make a great villain and I could love to hate him as much as Azazel.  So bring it on.  I just don't see a possibility for redemption after everything he's done.   That ship has sailed.

      • M.

        Sam drank blood of the hosts of demons, and it took divine intervention from the Big Kahuna to keep him from becoming a monster.  He pretty much gave up on Dean and partied with Ruby while Dean this season went all out to get him out so he pretty much sucks.  He choked and abandoned and cursed Dean then got angry about how long Dean was taking to forgive him and blamed him.  So I'd say that it's not that Sam is soooooooo much better than Castiel than it's that God/writers/TPTB waved their magic wand to keep from facing the true consequences of his actions.

      • Kate

        Sam didn’t hurt a loved one as part of a strategy, the way Cas hurt him.

        I strongly disagree with that point. Sam has done precisely this: but the narrative has given him mitigating factors to excuse his actions. And before you come back at me, I strongly support his mitigating factors: as far as he knew, he was stopping the Apocalypse, not triggering it. 

        I happen to believe that stopping Raphael from restarting the Apocalypse – something that would have caused Sam a great deal of harm, since it would have resulted in the release of Lucifer – is a perfectly sufficient mitigating factor for Castiel. I don't think Sam should be the only character on the show who gets to have mitigating factors.

        • Laura

          Samgals have been using the excuse that Sam thought he was doing the right thing for years. Now Cas should get to use the same excuse. :)

  • Rinienne

    There are many discussions about Castiel lately, yes. Alot of people (there are really alooot of them) trying to do anything to save Castiel. There are still some who think that it's the story about two brothers. People, seriously, there are hundreds ways to put it together. If Gamble will save Castiel, it won't mean the story won't be about two brothers any longer, but it will make thousandths people happy! I like Supernatural, started to watch it from second season, I enjoyed the story about Sam and Dean, but Castiel really added more to it, in good sense. Right now I really don't know will I still enjoy the show if he will disappear.

  • Anita

    This article expresses exactly how I feel. I'm a CasGirl and proud of it (even if I've watched SPN from the very first episode), but I've never denied that the show is about Sam and Dean. However, a show that kills every secondary character or turns them evil is a dark, depressing show and certainly not the Show I fell in love with.

    And I agree with the fact the the angel story has run its course on SPN, but I do think Cas has a lot of unexplored potential that can be achieved without turning him into the next big bad. I'll go even further and say that if Cas has to go, well, he has to go. But he needs to go as one of the good guys, as a friend (family!) of the brothers, because to do otherwise would be a huge disrespect for a character that was written as essentially good. Misguided perhaps (Dean and Sam were misguided at some point too!) but never evil.

    Finally, you've expressed really well what we're trying to accomplish with Save Castiel: if the writters are going to turn him into a foe (which, sadly, I think they will), please give him the redemption he deserves at the end. Don't just take the easy way and have Sam and Dean forgetting about a friend that died twice for them, so they can chase him and ultimately kill him and then go on their merry way.

    Thank you for saying that Cas fans are fans of Show too. There's a lot of people out there trying to make us feel like we aren't.

  • Forger

    This is what it boils down to, for me: get rid of the angels and everything to do with heaven. Just… give 'em the axe. It was interesting in season 4. It was okay in season 5 (that whole season had problems, though), but it just felt unnecessarily stretched out in season 6.

    I've been re-watching the first season lately. I miss the urban legends, the monsters of the week, the stuff that the boys could actually fight. What are they supposed to do against angels? And say Cas never turned evil – say he's still their buddy in season 7. Where's the threat if we know Cas can just pop in and save them and heal their injuries and bring them back from the dead?

    I don't have a problem with the character of Castiel. I have a problem with his powers, and the way he's this kind of deus ex machina for the boys (when he's a good guy, at least). If they found a way to de-power him and had him hanging out with the boys (following whatever redemption), then fine, that works for me. Otherwise, I wouldn't really mind it if they killed him.

    Just… some of the wailing and gnashing of teeth with regards to this whole Cas situation makes me facepalm. Chill, y'all.

    • Kate

      "Where’s the threat if we know Cas can just pop in and save them and heal their injuries and bring them back from the dead?"

      But he doesn't have to be used in that way… like you say, if he's a depowered angel he can be stoic in support, like he was in S5. In any case, (lazy!) writers will find a deus ex machina wherever they need one, be it Castiel, or Bobby's bookshelves, or the demon-killing knife, or the colt, or demon blood-drinking, or the rings that can suddenly open the cage, or whatever they think up when they cannot be bothered to let a plotline evolve organically from A to Z. Bobby himself has been one of the biggest dei ex machina on the show… along with Sam's powers.

      Actually I'd posit that as the season Big Bad Cas is even more of a deus ex machina, since how can Sam and Dean possibly fight something that powerful? That's why I hope he'll be defused and depowered.

    • kimber johnson

      oh sorry,i didnt realize you could actually hear my teeth nashing (lol) i just see cass as family now, like bobby, and i really dont want to see him go!!!

    • Clarissa

      I also like the formula of seasons 1 and 2 – chasing after a new monster or ghost and meeting really interesting guest stars.  I don't know if the show has come too far to ever go back to that again, or if a nice balance could be struck between those one-off cases and the overall mythology.

      But the point of the article was to show that a lot of the Castiel fans are being very calm about what they're hoping happens in the show.  Not all of them are screaming about it, and they don't even necessarily need to have him stick around indefinitely – just that his character his redeemed.

    • Ana

      I'm with you, Forger. This feels like a real opportunity for the boys to get back to fighting monsters without their trusty angelic safety net, something I've been hoping to see them move back to for a while. If they turned Cas human that'd be cool, but I'm really not hoping to see them extend the angel arc any further just to accommodate him.

      What I'm really hoping for in S7 is a fresh, new arc with a big bad that seems a little less lopsided of a fight as two humans vs. angels or archangels or God. The Mother could have fit the bill wonderfully, but sadly she was a casualty of S6's arc. There's plenty of lore still out there for the show to draw from, though.

      • Clarissa

        I actually thought that the Mother wasn't up to the standard of villains in the SPN universe.  Crowley and Azazel were both terrific villains (and there have been many others), played by great actors.  I would be happy to have a totally new big bad for the boys to face, but I don't think I would have wanted the Mother to stick around.

        • Ana

          I think she could have been, if she was given more than 3 episodes in the season and all of her motivations didn't come tumbling out via exposition right before her death. I found myself extremely sympathetic toward her reasons for coming to earth, and I think if they'd taken the time to develop that character more than just as a red herring, it could have led to interesting things. I mean, she could *create new monsters*. Imagine if they'd taken advantage of the creative possibilities of that.

          (I do agree that the character would have been more effective if they'd gone with a more engaging actress. Samantha Smith was absolutely wonderful when she took over that role, and I'd have been happy seeing more confrontations between the Mother and the boys wearing Mary's "skin.")

          • Clarissa

            Yes, I think the problem for me was also the actress and the fact that the character was underutilized.  I'm hoping the next villain will be much more to the standards they've set, because SPN has had some really terrific ones in the past.

            And Samantha Smith was terrific in that scene!

  • Donna

    Thankyou for an excellent article, and I agree with your final sentence completely. The world of Dean and Sam needs to be expanding, not collapsing, for in that direction I feel there lies only staleness, repetition and bordom.

    Castiel has proven to be an interesting character whose interactions with the Winchesters have been a breath of fresh air both to me, and I suspect the actors.He's immesely popular in a field of secondary characters with a lot of misses, and I feel removing him would be a foolish risk for the show to take- only a little clever writing is needed to keep him on.

    I'd really like him to stay, but if TPTB have decided against this I hope he goes out fully redeemed and forgiven-I feel the character deserves this much and I know Misha could act the heck out of it.

  • kimber johnson

    i'm a supernatural fan,as a whole! and for quite some time now misha has been part of that,just like jim has. i will never quit watching the show but i personally feel that you cant make fans fall in love with a character then just take him away without great backlash! castiel is as much family now as bobby.

  • Liz

    I don't know where they can possibly take the Castiel story next season that will be new.  I understand that some fans have a strong desire to see the brothers interact with other characters, but there's a lot of "bad water" under the bridge with this particular character.  How do they even start from where season 6 left off?  Castiel, who is supposed to be "like a brother" to Dean is powered up with millions upon millions of monster souls and he's demanding that Dean, Sam and Bobby kneel down before him and proclaim their love.  Oh, yeah, or he will destroy them.

    Castiel willfully broke Sam's wall and let the Hell memories through so that Dean would be distracted and would not stop him from opening Purgatory and sucking up all the soul power.  Of course he promised to save Sam IF Dean would get out of his way.  That's manipulative and cruel.  Who gets to do that and not be responsible?

    One of the flaws of Castiel's character is that he has always been too convenient.  When he does bad things, he gets easily forgiven because his powers let him miraculously save Dean at just the right moment.  (Or, Dean just never finds out in the first place.)  Then he gets a clean slate and he's "family" again.  Until the next time he betrays them because of some very important angel matters.

    Either Castiel is an angel, a powerful higher creature who is not encumbered by human frailties like doubt and guilt and indecision and loyalty and love (which I could totally accept) or he's Dean's other brother (or homoerotic foil, for those who see it that way).  But I don't like how the show tries to have it both ways, whichever is convenient at the moment.

    I like Misha Collins and I think he has brought a lot to the show, but it has long seemed that the writers are straining to keep Castiel's story going to please his fans, and it's beginning to strain the rest of the story and make the brothers look less than smart.

    • Joleen

      This. Too keep a character on board just to please a group of loud fans is not going to help the show at all. There is no way to go with the character anylonger, there than making him the enemy but in that case he will be too powerful. If he falls and becoes human , it will still seem the Sam story re-heatedand they need a lot of back-pedaling to have Castiel fall and remain in Jimmy's body.

       

      Having him redeem himself is another way to go but it will just seem like the Sam story reheated.

       

      They've painted themselves into a corner with the angel story and what's being told has already been told before, story wise.

       

      They need something new.

      • Cody

        Too keep a character on board just to please a group of loud fans is not going to help the show at all.

        That's just inane. All three main characters have their respective groups of "loud fans." Should they write out Jared because he has a group of loud fans who want him to stay on the show? Or Jensen?

        There is no way to go with the character anylonger, there than making him the enemy but in that case he will be too powerful.

        He can be kept on as a depowered angel or as a fallen angel.

        If he falls and becoes human , it will still seem the Sam story re-heatedand they need a lot of back-pedaling to have Castiel fall and remain in Jimmy’s body.

        Why would that be "the Sam story reheated"? Sam isn't a fallen angel. And as to the backpedaling, the lack of continuity this season has been appalling. They might as well add to the long list of plotholes by making Cas fall as Cas.

        They need something new.

        How is regressing to the S1-3 approach new?

        I like how the story has evolved, it's mature storytelling imo. The show wouldn't even still be on the air without Misha Collins' addition to the S4 cast. Even Jensen has said he was amazed they got renewed for S5. I'm sick of seeing Dean orbit his more special brother. I'd like him to have a proactive storyline that sees him use his wit and hunting skills to save his surrogate brother: Castiel. That's what they've set up with his speech about forgiveness and that's what I want to see. Fans of Castiel are entitled to get what they want out of this show as well as you. There has been plenty of fanservice to Jared fans this season. Dean fans and Cas fans matter to the ratings as well and it's time we got decent storylines for our favorites.

         

        • DeeDee

          @ Cody I’d like him to have a proactive storyline that sees him use his wit and hunting skills to save his surrogate brother: Castiel.

          Sing it, brother! (?)

    • kelios

      I agree.  You've perfectly laid out the problems I've had with Castiel from the very beginning.  I've never quite understood the idea that he is family somehow, given the betrayals he gotten away with time and again-without ever apologizing or even acknowledging them for the most part.

      I'd sort of like to see Castiel redeem himself by realizing what he's done wrong and coming clean, then making the ultimate sacrifice the way Sam did (since they seem determined to have him follow so exactly in Sam's footsteps), only this time I'd like to see it stick.  Or for God to send him back to earth without his grace to learn a bit more of what it's like to be human.  Something that will give the character a true redemption, not ignore everything he's done (again).

       

      • Cody

        I’ve never quite understood the idea that he is family somehow, given the betrayals he gotten away with time and again-without ever apologizing or even acknowledging them for the most part.

        Sounds like Sam to me.

        Cas is family because Dean said he is. Family doesn't end with blood. Dean should go all-out to save Cas, who he described as like a brother.

        • mervin

          Unless Castiel shows true remorse, he is no brother of Sam. 

          • Cody

            Well let's hope Sam shows some remorse for backstabbing him when Dean was trying to talk him down, hmmm?

            Of course Cas will show remorse. it was obvious he didn't want to have to do it and he said he'd fix Sam. And if he's Godstiel in season 7 well he isn't Cas until he lets the souls go is he? So just like you lot spent the first half of the season telling us it wasn't the real Sam, we get to tell you lot it isn't the real Cas.

    • RJ

      Totally wrong in my opinion–Cas has been helping the boys and has been part of team free will for many seasons now–he is like a brother as Dean said.  So he definitely can be redeemed from S6 WITHOUT ANY STRAIN–where even then he was trying to do good things and even saved Dean from a demon and helped by wiping the memories of Lisa/Ben.

      It fits in perfectly with the SPN idea of family.

  • Al

    First of all great article.

    This fandom is very divided on focus just on brothers relationship while other part of fandom wants to explore other sides of individual characters as well other relationships.

    I love Cas as a character, I love TFW together and I love Dean/Cas. To me Supernatural has grown beyond just the W boys.

    Without other characters/interactions this show would be boring by now and this is coming from someone who is watching SPN from day one.

    Over the last 3 seasons I've noticed that I prefer eps where it feels like it's almost an ensemble cast where boys are working either with other hunters (GGYA, AAH) Team Free Will (Mommy Dearest, Frontireland) or simple eps where I'm already familiar with 5-6 characters already (The End, OTHOAP) 

    My point is only or just Dean and Sam are no longer sufficient for me, nor is their never ending angst new, fresh or wonderfull, their unhealthy codependancy is actually scary/creepy to me and it paints a really bleek picture. 

    After everything Dean and Cas has been thru, it would be a shame for their relationship to end on opposite sides forever or Cas dying.

    It would really prove to Dean that eventually everyone abbandons him and that everything good eventually goes bad, no light and no hope in his life.

    Can Castiel still survive without a central focus on Heaven and Hell?

    Sure it can, especially after S6 – seeking redemption for one – wanting to fix his mistake of letting all those souls from purgatory of course assuming Dean finds a way how to defuse him first. 

    Cas could help with the purgatory monsters.

    Or simply wanting to learn further more about humanity and not to make such big mistakes ever again like all other angels sucumbed to. He may be old but he still has so much to learn, then there is his peculiar relationship with a certain hunter.

    As for but Cas is du ex machine – defusing him of those souls weakened him as an angel, still having few abilities such as teleporting and healing himself for example (but no time travel, destroying bunch of monsters with glowy hands enough to still see his otherworldiness but not too much to be the solution to fix all our problems so to speak) 

    Or his powers been neutralized by more powerfull ones from purgatory.

    Or simply been punished by real God, left as a human and when he "learns his lesson" he will get his grace back. Something good in not so great situation. He can stay with Bobby in the meantime a be sort of a helper and new hunter get him to learn to handle guns better.

    Cas deserves so much better, he sacrificed himself several times, helped the boys stop the apocalypse, he is a character that has touched many fans and I feel they really hit a jack pot with him and Misha as such. 

    My wish for S7 is that writers do well to Cas character, do him justice, that they expand Winchester world, to stop killing all the reccuring characters and when creating them to flesh them out, not one dimensional ones (Campbells in S6) of course I have other wishes especially for Dean but I 'm talking mostly about Cas now and how supernatural is so much more then two boys traveling in a car around the country.

    • Connie

      "It would really prove to Dean that eventually everyone abbandons him and that everything good eventually goes bad, no light and no hope in his life."

       

      I'll be honest I don't think that is true.  Dean's resilient, I think he'd find a way to find hope anyway BUT I do think he'd still be devastated by whatever happens with Castiel should it end badly. It wouldn't be something he's brush off.

       

      I just happen to think Dean's grown stronger from the guy who sold his soul to bring his brother back to life.  That's what hero's journey's are all about after all – overcoming the worst.  And I do believe that ultimately, rough around the edges as he is, Dean is a hero.  I go back to what Ben Edlund said about Let It Bleed in terms of Dean's journey there, I can't remember how he put it exactly but it seems like Dean basically gave up any "normal life" from that point on to essentially devote himself to "saving people, hunting things".  At this point I think Dean is willing to sacrifice, do without, a lot personally–even his old wishes–in order to do that.

       

      But I also think he won't give up on anyone he's cared about without a fight, least of all Castiel after everything they've been through together.  One only needs to view that scene in The End from Season 5, where Dean gets back from 2014 and puts his hand on Castiel's shoulder and looks at him full of affection to see that.  You don't see Dean giving that kind of look and speak with that kind of warmth to just anyone.

      • Al

        "I just happen to think Dean’s grown stronger from the guy who sold his soul to bring his brother back to life." 

        I thought so too but then first half of S6 happened were Dean was reset back to been all about Sam in most unhealthy way.

        The whole point of S5 was for Dean to learn to let go of Sam yet in S6 he is obsessed with Sam so far that he is willing to work for a demon, not even questioning why Crowley would want purgatory, he yells at both Bobby and Cas to basically drop all of the stuff they are doing cos what's more important then Sam? it's Sam, to jump imediatly on Sam cause vagon.

        He makes another deal even thou he learned his lession long time ago that deals are bad and literally dies to give Sam's soul back.

         

        It's not that I don't trust Dean or anything like that, I just don't trust the writers after S6 and the way they handled that. If you understand what I'm trying to say.

        I think that at the end of 5.04 writers decided no longer to care to explore Dean/Cas relationship in an natural organic way, they had Dean rude toward Cas for most of the S6.

        What I saw in S6 was characters acting OCC and some going backwards not forward.

  • RJ

    Great article–Cas/Misha is such great support for the boys along with Bobby. To kill him, ignore him or keep him evil would just be awful.  IT WOULD GREATLY DIMINISH MY ENTHUSIASM FOR SPN–such a beloved character and long term support should not be treated so.

    The show risks being too dark and claustrophobic if it's just the boys with Bobby and everything else killed or evil.  They need long time friends in support–Cas being there for 3 years with all their history together is VITAL for that.

    And I see no need to finish all heaven and hell references and stories–it is a part of SPN.  They could cut it back as no longer overarching but no to getting rid of it.  And Castiel is beyond the angel story–HE IS PART OF THE EXTENDED FAMILY.  And they can also be creative to where Cas can't be a convenient "out" for the boys.  I trust in the creativity of SPN to find a way.

  • M.

    I don't usually agree with Maureen Ryan but I agree with her on this and she's no EDG by any stretch of the imagination.

    Also, being all about each other is what helped cause the Apocalypse in the first place.  I think there's this denial among bro-bond fans that being stuck with each other and ONLY each other also causes a lot of friction, anger, lashing out to the point of violence.  They NEED other people.  If Sam had found someone else other than Ruby to be with and not drunk demon blood after Dean died, I would've been totally cool with him moving on and leading his own life.  Instead of overromanticizing it to the point of making the end a Romeo & Juliet kind of ending where they literally have to die together (and man, they did that already and they argued in Heaven!), give me an ending where they both have something to live for besides each other or even have one strong enough to make a decent life for himself for reals this time.

    It becomes a question of "why bother to hunt" when there's always going to be more monsters and no win is permanent.

    Also two brothers doing the MOTW thing, so very, very redundant.

    • Kate

      "I think there’s this denial among bro-bond fans that being stuck with each other and ONLY each other also causes a lot of friction, anger, lashing out to the point of violence."

      This. While I think a lot of fans see the angels as being the sole source of the schism in the brothers' relationship (and see Cas as the personification of that), I often think they forget that there was a heck of a lot of manufactured angst and division between Sam and Dean in seasons 1-3. I get the impression those seasons are remembered as some sort of golden age of brotherly love and tolerance when actually they weren't at all. It isn't as if the brothers will magically be transformed into two hearts beating as one without Cas there – the writers will just think up other ways to have them at odds with each other.

       

      • M.

        Those two fought a lot in S1-3 and don't forget Sam left the entire family when he went to college and I'm someone who actually would've run off to college rather than hunt so not blaming him for going to college.  I'm just pointing out that he was seriously unhappy while living with John & Dean and the whole hunting thing so the idea that he was thrilled being there during S1-3 is whacky since he had hopes of eventually returning to normality.  There were different problems but there were still problems.  Also Afterschool Special shows him unhappy and bit impatient with Dean during early high school so this idea of Dean and Sam being totally simpatico while John was away is silly.  It's like more than 20 years of cabin fever on top of a tortured lifestyle.  Nobody expects a married couple to just be all about each other the way people are demanding of two BROTHERS (and I think people forget this).

        In general, people always idealize the past.  Why on earth would anybody who wouldn't be in the top 1% back then idealize the 1950s or the pioneer days?  It really sucked back then.

        I'm sure that they'll have the brothers at odds somehow with or without Castiel so I'd rather have Castiel there.  And I mean real Castiel, not Cod.

        • kelios

          I agree and disagree. One, I don't think fans want to see Sam and Dean go back to S1-3.  They want to see the show focused on Sam and Dean doing what they are good at: saving people and killing things–together. As a team.  I personally don't want them to go back to S1-3 because your're right, they fought constantly.  They didn't understand each other or really even like each other much.

          But the intervening years have changed that.  They've changed Sam and Dean.  And now the writers can take us back to a similar (not identical) format and give us what we really want: two brothers who like and care about each other and who aren't constantly fighting each other as much as the rest of the world.  I'd like to see Sam and Dean facing a threat they actually have a hope in hell of defeating on their own (as opposed to the whole angel thing) and doing it together.  Working together as a team, with a common goal, on the same page.  Let the angst and drama come from outside their relationship for once.

           

          • http://dahne1.blogspot.com Dahne

            "I’d like to see Sam and Dean facing a threat they actually have a hope in hell of defeating on their own (as opposed to the whole angel thing) and doing it together.  Working together as a team, with a common goal, on the same page.  Let the angst and drama come from outside their relationship for once."

            This is my whole hope for season 7 in one succinct idea.  From your lips to TPTBs' ears.  I want a solid Winchester win without angst and guilt residue where THEY have to be clever and brave to defeat whatever evil they are facing.  No easy angel outs.  No constant emoangsty about the results of a case.  Brothers saving people without qualifiers, hunting things without angelic saves.  That is my ideal season 7.

  • Nat

    Just a handful of people want to save Castiel only cause Misha collins in an interesting person. The rest of us want to get rid of Castiel and have the show be Sam and Dean like it used to:)

    • Clarissa

      That's not really a fair assessment.  There are actually A LOT of people who want to save Castiel – not only because they like Misha, but because they like the angel storyline.  I would not claim it's a specific number of the fandom or that it outweighs the people who would only prefer the "Sam and Dean Show", but it's certainly more than a "handful".

      • Bill-ie

        I agree with Nat, it's just a handful of very vocal, loud, pushy fans that scream for Cas.  The rest of us could care less.

  • Nik

    I admit I'm not a Castiel fan. I truly believe the angel storyline wasn't good for SN. I also believe it should have ended a long long time ago. I never saw Castiel as Dean and Sam's friend, for many reasons, and I was convinced he would turn into a bad guy eventually, just because it seemed to be the case with angels in SN.

    I don't understand why so many Castiel fans say that Dean should save Castiel because he sacrificed so much for DEAN's cause for example. Saving people/planet was never only DEAN's cause. It's SAM's cause as well, just as it is BOBBY's cause etc. So why is it always: "Castiel sacrificed so much for Dean's cause…" "Castiel means so much to Dean…" "We want Dean to save Castiel…"? I've discussed these matters with a lot of Castiel fans but honestly, most of the reasons (why these fans thought Castiel was so important to Dean specifically) I've been given were more speculations than facts or were somehow related to slash, which I can't take for valid arguments.

    I know I'm not completely unbiased as I've already stated I'm not a fan of Castiel (or the whole angel storyline in general). I preferred SN when it was a little more simple, a little less complicated, without angels and more focused on the brothers. So I would actually like the show finishing the angel storyline and moving on already. And I really hope that Sera and co. won't keep Castiel only to make his fans happy if they don't have any more plans for him because it would hurt the show for sure.

    • Nik

      "And I really hope that Sera and co. won’t keep Castiel only to make his fans happy if they don’t have any more plans for him because it would hurt the show for sure." – What I meant with this was that not every article on this matter is as reasonable as this one. I've read a lot of those where the supporters cared only about Castiel being back, no matter what it would do to the show.

      • Clarissa

        That's a fair assessment.  There are certainly people out there saying that, but most of the people I spoke to while researching this were more about "redeeming" his legacy than actually just keeping him around for the sake of it :)

        I had really hoped to present both sides in the end and am glad if I accomplished that.

        • Nik

          I'm not sure about the "redeeming" thing, either because I don't find Castiel any different from other characters that came and went. What I mean is that for me, the show is about the brothers, and other characters (including Castiel, Bobby etc.) are/were there only to move the story on or to teach us more about the brothers in one way or another. And none of these characters had to be redeemed before.

          I'm pretty sure that if for example Bobby's role came to an end and he would be supposed to leave the show, there wouldn't be so many fans trying to bring him back. Which makes me think that although some Castiel fans might really be supporting this only because they truly feel the show wouldn't be as good without Castiel, a lot of his fans might be supporting this mostly because of Misha, and that's what I'm struggling with. I don't think I would do this for Jensen, and I'm his great fan, and his character is without doubt more important to the show than Misha's. To be honest, I actually think it's not bad at all for the actors to start working on their careers outside SN as it's never a good thing to stay with one show or one character for too long.

      • Angie

        “And I really hope that Sera and co. won’t keep Castiel only to make his fans happy if they don’t have any more plans for him because it would hurt the show for sure.”

         

        That's what worries me too, frankly :/ I hope the writers make an indipendent choice about Cas' future.

    • SueP

      I'm actually with you in not understanding how it's believed Castiel sacrificed so much for Dean. For the better part of season 4, Castiel was following orders and more or less working 'against' Dean since the angels wanted the apocalypse to happen. He was manipulating them toward the angels goal. When he finally rebelled, I don't see it as being 'for Dean'. He made a choice — finally — but it was his decision to help humanity, not just Dean. I don't see Castiel's decision any different from Gabriel's. He concluded the angels were wrong and the humans deserved the support. And Cas has betrayed them just as much as helped them. Some they know (Crowley) and some they don't (letting Sam out of the panic room) so I don't see him as an ally, just another chess piece on the board working (which is now obvious) toward his own ends. Can he be redeemed? He's committed the ultimate betrayal. Yes, Dean has forgiven Sam for betryal just as bad, but Sam is his brother and its been his job to look after him his whole life. Castiel isn't. Does he deserve the same consideration? I'm thinking no. If it were Bobby that had betrayed them so thoroughly, I wouldn't think Dean would forgive him either.

      • Nik

        "When he finally rebelled, I don’t see it as being ‘for Dean’. He made a choice — finally — but it was his decision to help humanity, not just Dean."

         

        I completely agree with this. Castiel made a choice on his own. He didn't have to do it and I don't think Dean (or anyone else) forced him although Dean was persuading him. The final choice was Castiel's, so it shouldn't be considered a sacrifice, and definitely not only for Dean.

        I also agree that I've seen as much help from Castiel as I've seen him manipulating, so it was why I thought he could turn into a bad guy.

         

        Anyway, I've enjoyed discussing with a little more mature SN fans (no matter what side they're on) for a change.

        • Cody

          "I did it, all of it, for you." (Good God Y'all)

          "I gave everything for you." (Point of No Return) 

          Emphasis mine.

          It's canon.

      • Eve

        With respect, you don't know that they don't know Cas let Sam out. They aren't stupid – they've probably guessed. And if Cas hadn't done it it's not as if Sam would still be sitting there is it? Zachariah would have sent someone else. And last but not least Sam could have chosen not to walk out of there.

        That's all beside the point, but since you raised it I wanted to add my 2 cents.

        And Cas wasn't working towards "his own ends." Nothing he has done has been for his own sake – that was made totally clear in 6.20. Everything Cas has done has been with good intentions – and like someone further up said, that's the same excuse Sam fans have used for him all along so it should apply to Cas too. Cas hasn't done anything the brothers haven't done. And as for Sam's wall, what do you think Raphael would have done to it if he'd won his war? Sam wouldn't even still be Sam – he'd be Lucifer's meatsuit again.

        And Castiel is like a brother to Dean – when Dean says that, it's *canon*. Deny it all you like, but the profound bond is *canon*.

        • Cheryl

          It's absurd to even try to compare Cass to Sam and that's based on the facts not making excuses. Which you seem to going all out to  do for Cass

          Maybe Cas is on par with Dean's brother – the other brother, the one he's mentioned exactly once this season and whom he doesn't seem to care about so long as he has Sammy.

          • Eve

            The fact you call him Sammy tells me all I need to know. Dean compared Cas to Sam when he called him brother. It's canon, he said the word. It cannot be denied. It's one fo those facts you seem so keen on. :P

            And if you excuse Sam's actions in S4 with the fact he was trying to stop the Apocalypse (which, LOL, I can totally tell you do) then so was Cas. It cuts both ways.

      • Cheryl

        Agree with you Sue on everything but putting Sam's betrayal of Dean on the same level as Cass. There is a world of difference between them and what led Sam to making the choices he did as opposed to the ones Cass did. 

        It's too bad Kripke felt the need to give Cass a better and more sympathetic viewpoint  than Sam one of his two main characters . Maybe the fair minded fans who don't watch carefully for every detail would see  that Sam like Dean was just as much a victim and pawn in all of this maybe even more so.

        That Sam was not the villain  in the storyline even when kripke and gamble tried to see  the fans the idea he was. That the role of villain  belonged to  Cass  and his fellow Angels and kripke did this and swept all of Castiels wrong doings and betrayal under the rug to keep Cass in the show. If Dean had found out Cass let Sam out of the panic room and totally lied him into the Green room.  Believing and trusting in Cass when he said he'd keep Sam out of this and safe it would be unforgivable in Deans eyes and Kripke knew that

        Cass never owed up to or atoned for his crimes against humanity and betraying both brothers in Season 4 or all the other underhanded things he did trying to bring on the Apocalypse. How does he rate as family when their whole relationship was built on lies and betrayal?

        • Eve

          How does he rate as family when their whole relationship was built on lies and betrayal?

          You, as a viewer, may not think he rates as family but the fact is he does. If Dean has said it then that's canon. We have no evidence the brothers don't know Cas let Sam out of the panic room and if he hadn't done it someone else would. If he hadn't done it, he would have been killed and who would have let Dean out of the Green Room then? No one. And Lucifer would probably have taken Sam. Try a little logic.

          And as to the lies and betrayal, well Dean and Sam's relationships has been hit hard by that hasn't it? Maybe Dean is a decent person, who forgives, and who looks to the fact Cas went through Hell for him, fell for him and died for him. That's what the relationship is built on and if Dean has managed to forgive Sam for all the crap then he can forgive Cas. Cas is his brother too – as he said.

    • Fallen4Cas

      "I killed two of my brothers this week, I'm hunted, I rebelled. And I did it, I did all of it for you."

      How can you say that it wasn't for Dean when Cas says it was.

      "I gave everything FOR YOU"

      Again Cas talking to Dean. So not from a slashy point or even trying to take sides. These appear to be facts.

  • Connie

    " particularly Dean – helping to "save" him and redeem him for his recent actions."

     

    I definitely agree there.  Dean and Castiel have, as has been said aloud on the show itself, a "profound bond".  Despite being an angel Castiel may well be the first real friend outside his family that Dean's ever had.  He had a few he "inherited" from his father(this would include Bobby) and who maybe eventually came to value him for himself but Castiel is the first real friend he's had on his own, first and foremost, because of himself and who HE is.  Yes Castiel pulled him out of Hell because that's what he assigned to do but from their, because of who Dean was and because of how he helped Castiel start to realize who Castiel was – their existences became intertwined in ways I'm sure neither of them could have imagined before.

    There is an equality between them, despite the fact that physically Castiel as an angel is far more powerful, but there is an emotional equality that is simply lacking in Dean's relationships with other people.  He and Sam have had their problems but Sam's still the brother that Dean practically raised and viewed as more worthy of life and happiness than himself for all those years.  Bobby is still a sort of father figure, though a kinder one than his own.

    Dean also doesn't give up on family and I would never believe for a minute that Dean would give up on Castiel, at least not without one hell of a fight.  If worst came to worst and Castiel did need to be offed, then Dean would do it(and I think "the real Castiel" would want him to), I have no doubt about that – but by god, he'd do everything he could to find another way first.

     

    Not to mention the chemistry between Jensen Ackles and Misha Collins is absolute fantastic(though Ackles does seem to have that effect, he's got great chemistry with almost everyone).

     

    I am one of those who feel that Dean's been shortchanged in the plot relevancy department over the past two seasons(after that absolutely brilliant build up in Season 4 this turn of events has been especially disappointing), I'd like him to have some relevancy other than being Sam's brother or even Castiel's friend BUT that doesn't mean I don't ALSO want him to be Castiel's friend and Sam's brother.  It just so happens that Dean is obviously so much more than that and it's painful to watch them trying to stuff him into those little boxes. Even Castiel had a supernaturally relevant storyline of his own this past season, even if most of it did happen off-screen.  Dean's one of two main leads, he's played by a wonderfully versatile and talented actor in Jensen Ackles so use that for more than just propping up everyone else's storylines.

     

    I'd go so far to say that in needing to both needing to save the world from Castiel or from what Castiel's unleashed(if Cas is redeemed/saved fairly but there are still consequences from Purgatory's opening) and trying to save/redeem Castiel himself, it may well be the perfect way to give Dean both a leading relavent active, PRO-active role for himself in the main arc(because there have been plenty of dropped storylines…I mean hints;)…regarding Dean's role in the grand scheme of things ever since Season 1, not mention his own talents and skills) and to still keep those traits that are so intrinsic to who Dean is, the love and care-taking instinct he has for his friends and family.  Because it's always been about both for Dean, protecting and saving strangers and taking care of those he loves.

     

    • Cindy

      I love this reply and agree with it 110% and all I have to add is that according to Kripke in one of the season companion books, he brought¬†the angels on as¬†Dean’s connection to the myth-arc, in a similar manner as he meant for the¬†demons to be¬†Sam’s connection to it, from the beginning.¬†For that reason alone, I think the angels should not be tossed aside completely.

      Cas is not the only angel we’ve seen on the show, but through¬†the¬†“profound bond”¬†with Dean¬†he¬†has organically¬†grown into so much more¬†to Dean, and by extension,¬†to¬†all of TFW. He was a bona fide¬†member of TFW and he has been called “brother” and “family” by Dean, and so, to stay true to the story and to¬†the characters within that story, Cas¬†should be treated as “family”, IMO-meaning Dean should lead¬†the way in bringing him back to himself,¬†so that he (Cas)might be able to redeem himself for the mistakes he’s made.

    • kelios

      Not trying to argue, but…how are Castiel and Dean friends? Do they talk about non-Apocalypse related stuff when we aren't looking? Do they hang out while Sam is off doing research? Do they have one single thing in common other than Castiel belatedly dragging Dean out of Hell and sort of helping them stop the Apocalypse (when he wasn't working to actually get it going)?

      Because all I see is Sam and Dean calling on Castiel when they need someone to pull them out of the fire or do something else that mere mortals can't manage.  Even Castiel and his allies seem to think that's the case.  The whole friend/brother/profound bond thing has always confused me, because I've never seen it for a moment.

      • Shannon

        Well, I didn't see the brother bond re-forged properly, but the writers tell me that it is, so I suppose I have to go with that. Dean has named Cas a brother and family, so, along with the profound bond, this is canon now, too-even for those who can't see it. I've seen it, though, many times.

      • mervin

        I agree. Not seeing the profound bond here. Dean didn't even try to contact Cas when he was with Lisa. Out of sight, out of mind.

        • DeeDee

          I thought he was intent on trying to put that life well behind him.  Calling on Angels on a regular basis would seem to defeat that object, wouldn't you say?

          I believe there's a profound bond there – doesn't have to show itself in the way that makes sense to YOU.  I have no reason to believe that a profound bond between a human and an angel would necessarily follow the mundane guidlelines of a bond between 2 humans.  Why would it?  Since when do we get a tour of Dean's thoughts and feelings toward Castiel or Castiel's thoughts and feelings toward him?  Dean is a complex enough character (and Jensen skilfully plays him that way) for us to understand that while there are things he'll never say out loud,  we're meant to understand that there's much going on beneath the surface.  I see his relationship with Castiel this way – and that's why I like it.  I'd have thought it went without saying that the fact that Castiel has been sent to watch him, to rescue him from Hell means that their relationship will simply not be mundane.  The fact that Dean calls him 'brother' is profound in itself considering how he views anything that isn't human; considering that he is well aware that he was being used by the heavenly hosts and that Castiel was a part of that.  And this is why making Castiel the Big Bad is simply counterproductive (as other people have already agreed): Dean went outside his usual perameters for family – humans only, no dicks with wings or black eyes (obviously) – and this made him a bigger, better man imo so to tear all that down now is imo absurdly sloppy and careless storytelling.

           

          As some other wise commenter said: to retcon this relationship (not just Castiel with Dean, but by extension Sam, Bobby and the entire human branch of the family too) is to make rewatching SPN totally unpalatable.  If we are to understand Dean's influence over Castiel why then could he not have used that influence to put the case for the humans to a guy who would not only understand, but also listen, who was quite demonstrably different from the other Angels; who had a chance of making things better for ALL humans?  To decide to make everything in the world totally bleak by making humans the only ones capable of compassion, to have them at the mercy of the fates and all things evil with nothing to stand between them, holding a sword of protection, save Sam and Dean, well… Really absurd.

           

          • Cody

            Thank you for this fantastic comment. Making Cas bad is nonsensical, it's shock-horror storytelling that is lazy. Not having Dean save Cas is totally out of character. Not giving Cas a redemption storyline that runs season-long and includes Misha in regular appearances is bad for the ratings.

            And above all what is bad for the ratings is bad for the continued existence of the show. I'd like to see another season, but without Misha it isn't gonna happen.

  • Tracy Ridgeway

    I enjoyed reading all the different views on the show. I hope Cas returns to the show even if it's just as a guest. I can't wait to see how the writers approach the new season. I've been a fan of the show from the first episode and will remain one until the final show. Lets hope for 10 – 15 seasons pushing it I no. If I had any say on who stayed or who was brought back it would be Jeffery Dean Morgan , John W. .  September is to long to wait to find out whats happening. What ever they do with the show it's going to be good I already know that. The one thing that needs to change in is that Bobby Singers (Jim Beaver) regular not as a guess. He has been a main part of this show he's the one they call for help with anything. He's always right there to help so something they should change.

    • Katie

      If I'm not mistaken Jim was ask to and said he didn't want to cause he wants more free time to be with his daughter

  • Katie

    Even if i LOVE Cass since the very first scene in Lazarus rising, I still have hard time understanding people who are overacting now. Sure I still love him, sure I REALLy want Cass to redeem himself and I'm praying he'll stay alive. And yeah, I'll be really sad if he's just kill…and even a little upset

    But at the same time, the fact now is that we know absolutely nothing. Jim never was a regular and has almost the same number of episode than Misha last year. Not being a regular doesn't mean that for sure you won't be in any episode.

    The angel story has been drag for 3 years time, time to get to another story. sure we can have Cass pop around some time and give some advice or anything.  But if you keep Misha as a regular, he'll need to be there for at least 12 episodes (if I correctly remember the min. number of episode for a regular), so I prefer having maybe 5-6 episodes of Cass coming in and out to help once in a while than 12-15 episodes of Cass coming just to say Hello

    Now my strategy is to wait. Why sent so much letters and all when the writers already know how much the fans loves Cass? And why we don't know anything?

    • Belinda

      Because there is always the fear that the writers have their own agenda, that they may sacrifice characters for their own ends. We send letters because we want the writers to know that we don't just love Cas, we want his story to end true to character, that he's not just gonna get a rushed out exit because they want to give a fresh new story. We may not know anything but that doesn't mean we shouldn't do something to express our feelings about things. We want Cas have a good storyline whether he stays alive or end, and we want this to be true to character and not just another Cas-is-evil-bad-guy-forever storyline. It is all just to let the writers know our feelings. There is no harm in that.

      • Katie

        I guess, that make sense, but  at the same time if the writers decide to kill him in the premiere (which i PRAY it won't happen), it's kind of a bit too late. I'm seeing people starting this week/last week to organise and send letters

        But the writers area always about 5 scripts ahead of the shooting. So by now, episode 1 to 3…if not episode 1 to 4 must be finish since they're starting shooting in about 2 1/2 weeks.

  • PoorCassie

    As long as Cas doesn't get treated like the next bad guy and killed off then I think I'm ok….but I don't know how Sam is going to apologize for STABBING Cas while he wasn't looking!!!!

    • Clarissa

      Well, to be fair, Cas did break the wall in Sam's head and we really didn't know if he would survive it (although technically we KNEW because they couldn't kill Sam).  So, in some respects they're kind of even.  Both of them did pretty bad things.

      • Cheryl

        Difference between Sam and Cass is you are comparing a powerful entity an Angel to a human being. Sam who was without a soul for a year by no doing of his won which Cass is responsible for and in Season 4 Sam was desperately trying stop the apocalypse while cass was intentionally trying to start it. Sam and Dean both were vcitims and pawns conspired against by the powers of both Heaven (including Cass) and Hell. They were both used manipulated lied to and broken in order to force them into the roles the angels including cass wanted themto play in bringing on the apocalypse.

        .To put anything sam has done (or has been accused of doing) in the likeness of cass is an absurdity  And it's based on facts not on  the excuses and  desperation ofcertian fans  wanting a secondary character to stay.

        Cass and the Angel mythology should have departed in Season 5 as well as him oweing up to all his crimes against mankind and the betrayal of both brothers. Which kripke swept under the rug to give cass a reason to stay on screen. Sam could never have unleashed Lucifer without Cass and I think if this had all been revealed Cass could have had a much kinder departing after redeeming himself and shouldering the burden alongside Sam and Dean too. Instead of the ridiculously trying to scape goat sam for everything. Kripke could try but he could never erase the facts.

        Sorry didn;t mean to rant at you just ranting I'm so tired of fans having selective memories and Kripkes terrible decision to cover up castiels part which in the end led to this joke fo an season finale

        • Eve

          Why is Cas responsible for Sam being without a soul? He's indirectly responsible for Sam being resouled since he pulled out Sam's body. If he hadn't done that then Dean wouldn't have had Sam to resoul in the first place. It's canon that he didn't know Sam was soulless. CANON. And before you start slamming him for not telling Dean Sam was out, well neither did Bobby. And come to think of it neither did Sam.

          And as far as the lying and manipulation is concerned Cas was lied to as well when it came to starting the apocalypse. And as soon as he realised it wasn't God who was pulling the strings he chose Dean. If Sam had chosen Dean the apocalypse wouldn't even have started would it? If he had listened to Dean's reservations about Ruby the apocalypse wouldn't have started would it? You people have been making excuses for Sam for years. The same excuses apply to Cas now. And if Cas is suddenly responsible for  all the crap he has pulled (which he has) then it follows that so is Sam. Sam released Lucifer because he let a demon lead him by his dick and he didn't listen to all the people who told him what he was doing was wrong. That's on Sam. Sam went to Hell to stop what he had started. Cas is hardly going to sit back and let Raphael start it all again is he? That would waste Sam's sacrifice.

          And like I asked the other Septic Tanker further up: what do you think would have happened if Raphael had won? What do you think would have happened to your precious Sammy then?

          • Cheryl

            I was addressing Clarissa and trying to in a civilized manner but Wow! Angry, defensive  and in denial much?  Looks like I hit a sore spot when I said Sammy, I love when Dean calls him that as it sounds like Dean is telling sam I love you every  he uses it and Sam only lets Dean call him that. And I'm guessing Sam being the most important person in Deans life is what really bothers you. I'm sorry you are losing a character you like or that he is being downsized but he has been overused and show horned in for seasons too long. And I understand people liking Cass, I do too but what I don't get is anyone thinking that Cass is what drives the show. He doesn't and he never did. The boys do, Sam and Dean, and they are what the show is about. Nothing and nobody else.

             

          • Angie

            "Why is Cas responsible for Sam being without a soul? He’s indirectly responsible for Sam being resouled since he pulled out Sam’s body"

             

            I think you missed the part when Sam said to Cas "Did you bring me back souless on purpose", and Cas tried to say something lame like "why would you think that?" and when Sam kept looking at him, Cas adverted his eyes and tried to change the discussion. Wow, that's true honesty, isn't?

            Cas has done nothing but lie, this season. That's CANON.

          • http://dahne1.blogspot.com Dahne

            Cas is not responsible for Sam's choices just as Sam is not responsible for Cas' choices.  They both chose their own paths.  However, to think that Cas did not know Sam was soulless is naive.  I agree that he did not purposely pull him out of the pit without a soul, but I don't believe for a minute that he first knew about it when he stuck his hand in Sam and informed Dean.  Why else did he avoid Sam for an entire year?  He knew that RoboSam was working with Grandpa Creepy for Crowley from the beginning.  No way he thought that the real Sam would have done what he did.

      • Julia

        You guys are kidding, right?  I don't mean to sound angry or anything, but Cas was powered up with souls, was advancing on Dean, saying they weren't family after all, so what was Sam going to do, especially while dealing with Hell memories that Cas had unleashed intentionally?  I'm pretty sure that Sam stabbing Cas doesn't warrant an apology within the narrative of the show.  It's more like a desperate, heroic act to save his brother.  I'd be shocked if Dean was upset about it.

        • http://dahne1.blogspot.com Dahne

          Agreed.  I never expected fans to see this as anything but defense of the people he loved.  No different than shooting Grandpa Creepy when he was infected by Eve's worm monster.

    • Cheryl

      You're joking right?

      • Eve

        what I don’t get is anyone thinking that Cass is what drives the show. He doesn’t and he never did. The boys do, Sam and Dean, and they are what the show is about. Nothing and nobody else.

        Who here has said Cas is what drives the show? No one. But the show is about more than Sam and Dean, for a whole lot of fans who make a difference to the ratings. You should be hoping they keep Cas to keep those fans watching because you won't get your "boys" for an eight season without those fans.

        when Sam kept looking at him, Cas adverted his eyes and tried to change the discussion. Wow, that’s true honesty, isn’t?

        Yes it is canon that he didn't know Sam was soulless. Watch 6.20 properly.

  • lisabeth

    I am a Castiel fan. And I believe that the angel storyline was good for Supernatural. The show went from Sam and Dean hunting evil creatures to fighting evil as a whole. It went from fighting to save a single human family to fighting to save humanity. Castiel was a big part of that fight. Even if Castiel is written off the show he deserves to leave in a way that acknowledges everything he sacrificed for the Winchesters and humanity. Because even if you don't like what he did in S6, he did stop Rapheal from restarting the Apocalypse.

    • Eve

      Yay! I can't quite wrap my head around people thinking that it was a better option for Cas to just let Raphael release Lucifer and Michael and start it all again. Seriously, what do they think Raphael would have done to Sam? Like I said higher up, i somehow doubt his wall would still be standing.

      • riley

        I think the issue isn’t that Cas stopped Raphael.¬† He did do that, but in the process he became a potentially bigger threat to humanity than Raphael and Lucifer ever were.¬† Now we have a “god” who seems to be on a path of smiting all who fail to kneel before him.¬† How is this any better than Raphael?

        • Eve

          I think it's a lot more likely that Dean can reach Castiel than he could if he were trying to talk Raphael into letting the souls go.

  • whiteflame

    I have watched this show from the start (six years now is pretty good feat) but I can say without doubt that I will not be watching this show without Castiel anymore.

    I already gave up on S6 because Cas was so horribly underused (I still haven't watched most of the middle eps, also because the season in itself seemed like an aimless collection of below the average motw eps and I have little interest for them). I was reeled back in during the latter half when Cas was around again and I'm glad for that since we got The Man Who Would Be King which was a brilliant, brilliant episode! I don't understand the decision to keep the civil-war plotline offscreen when it seemed like the most interesting stuff we got this season. Instead we had to watch… what? Soulless!Sam, domesticated!Dean and evil!Campbells, not… something I enjoyed.

    The neverending Sam and Dean angst gets a little overdone after six years, too. As much as I love the brothers, they are not the reason I watch anymore. (Yeah, I know. I probably should stop already, but I'm still waiting to see how Cas' storyline unfolds/ends.)

    • Bianca

      Absolutely.

    • Cody

      THIS.

    • Bill-ie

      Bye-bye! (and good riddance to Cas)  Let the door hit you on the way out.

      • SPNfan

        Oh thank GOD – someone else who hasn't been hypnotised by Castiel!! lol

  • Caspian

    I think most people would agree the most important issue is Cas' treatment, rather than whether he stays or goes.

    It seems kind of bizarre to take a character who has been the most steadfast, the most loyal, the most self-sacrificing (he took a bus to join the brothers in a fight), and end his story as another spoke in the Winchester's wheel of horrific fortune.

    There were times in Season 6 where it felt like a lot of characters were doing things, which we know from the previous writing, they would just never do, and it felt too much like they were being used as tools – either for humour, or for shock, or for the canny twist. And that wasn't just restricted to Cas, it was sometimes awkwardly blantent in Sam and Dean too, so there was a sense of jarring unfamiliarity about this season which sometimes made it quite difficult to get into.

    (Case in point – Dean reads Vonnegut, but apparently he's too dumb for HP Lovecraft?)

    What was the point in setting up that friendship between Dean and Cas – right from the start it was so unexpected and fascinating, and yeah, kind of charming – if all Cas was, was a vehicle for a specific arc? Why give him some of the most lasting acts of bravery and morality of the show – representing so much of what it was about – if he could never follow through because he's not a Winchester?

    Whatever becomes of Cas – whether he's mutated into the big bad as another lesson for us all to remain neurotic about everyone's potential for destruction if they dont have Dean to keep them human, or Sam to pat their shoulders and save them from self-loathing – or if he de-nukes back to angel and goes globe-trotting in a renewed zen state of appreciation for the beauty of life and creation (my personal favourite), I really don't think there's any reason he has to be killed off, just because otherwise he'd make the Family Business obsolete.

    If it was really that easy to make Sam and Dean obsolete, I'm guessing maybe someone should be arguing their arc is finished, and we can can all go home.

    You can't get rid of characters, family members, because they threaten circumstances of the story. The story has to evolve to withstand that kind of thing.

    Thats what I'm crossing my finger fo for next season.

     

    • Jackie

      I think most people would agree the most important issue is Cas’ treatment, rather than whether he stays or goes.

      No, I don't think that is true. The Cas fans I know want the character to stay. They want him to be a part of Team Free Will. They want to see his story continued. I don't really know anybody on the boards who just wants him rescued and then to go away. They'd rather see an evil Cas than no Cas.

      • Bianca

        But that's not how everyone feels. I admittedly ended up only actively watching episodes this season that had Bobby or Castiel in them as the season progressed. (The others I watched on my DVR a few days after they aired, to put that in perspective) I'm definitely in Castiel's court. But I'd rather see the character written off in a satisfactory manner than to stick around and fester the way Dean and Sam have been this year. I don't even think Dean acts like Dean anymore. He hasn't since the first episode of this season. I don't want to see Castiel waste away because of bad writing. I'd rather see him written off in a way that is faithful to what this character has been. I feel like that's a fair treatment.

        • RJ

          Absolutely disagree–a big chunk of fand absolutely do NOT want Cas written off.  That would be awful.

          • RJ

            *fans*

    • Steph

      I love this entire comment. Exactly how I feel.

  • Raynell

    I don't understand how some can be so committed to the only Sam and Dean/anti-Cas movement. If they claim to love Sam and Dean so much, why wouldn't they want the two to have a friend to be with them? 

    I admit Cas should probably be less powerful to be relevant to the story, but that can easily fixed through some clever writing. Make him a bad guy for a few episodes, and then de-power him as he helps TFW to hunt down and kill the monsters released from Purgatory. Cas has been with them for so long and done so much for them that it would go against the grain for them to just give up on a friend and brother. Last actions notwithstanding on Sam, Dean and Cas's part, they are all equally flawed now and the brothers have always been brave enough to admit no one, especially them, is perfect. Cas not being perfect was a shocker to them, sure, but that should just make them understand him more.

    And like the article said, a stable supporting character is important to increase the pool of storyline potential. After six years, it gets lonely to just be the two brothers. Bobby is there, and I love him but I worry if Cas isn't redeemed and saved, then SPN will turn to Bobby as the only other source of heartbreak and conflict.

    Destroying such a beloved character is also self-defeating. Firstly, anyone new the show introduces is kind moot at this point because who is gonna care two hoots about anyone new after Cas. Secondly, the boys aren't gonna trust anyone new after this. Thirdly, it will take time for people to reach the same level of heartbreak with Cas, other than Bobby; time SPN is unlikely to have. And finally, I doubt any new character will ever be well-received in SPN if Cas isn't redeemed and saved. 

    I don't want SPN to end just yet, I still love it 

  • Katie

    Castiel is a wonderful character who was introduced to facilitate a story arc – how to get Dean out of hell.  He was great while the Apolcypse was ongoing, as he provided a heavenly POV (one side of the heavenly POV anyway) as opposed to the demon POV.  When Sam and Dean averted the Apoclypse, the question became what to do with an angel?  The war in heaven storyline wasn't sufficient to keep Castiel relevent to the guys' world, as they couldn't possibly hope to be a factor in that conflict.  The weapons of heaven theft would have been a good way to keep Castiel relevant to earthly matters, but the writers missed the boat on that. 

    As much as Castiel is loved, Supernatural was created as a story about two brothers fighting evil in the world.  Not two brothers and an angel fighting evil in the world.  I'm sure Castiel will continue to be a recurring presence on the show just as Bobby is, and Ellen, Jo, John, Mary, Rufus, Crowley and many other wonderful characters.  I don't want the writers to shoehorn in a character simply because he's loved.  If that were the case, I'd keep Rufus and Ellen as well!

    • riley

       

      I agree with this completely.  Seasons 4 and 5 were wonderful and epic (mostly season 4) because of the introduction of the angels and Castiel.  To me season 6 felt like they were stretching for a way to keep Castiel on the show.  A super powerful character who is totally on the side of the heroes just creates so many story telling hurdles.  I would love for Cas (and Misha) to remain a part of Supernatural.  But I also really want an interesting, cohesive, thought-provoking story.  I'm not one hundred percent sure that the two can happen at the same time.

  • Melanie Lakey

    I'm so with you, Clarissa….but I absolutely think there's room for Castiel in the future.  As many have pointed out, one can just look at fan fiction to see how many possibilities there are for stories with Cas in Dean and Sam's life after all the apocalypse drama.  If they get rid of Cas, I don't know if I can trust the show anymore.  Damn straight I love Dean and Sam…but I also love Cas.  Just as much.  And I love Bobby and Crowley.  I loved Gabriel, John, Ellen, Ash (!!) and Lucifer (in a love-to-hate kind of way).  I really hate losing so many beloved characters!

  • Katie

    Adendum – I think Castiel will still be around.  Misha Collins isn't going to be a regular cast member anymore, but that doesn't mean he's been written out.  Jim Beaver has never been a regular cast member and he was in more episodes than Misha last season!  But I do think the writers should quit killing off everyone who comes into the Winchester's world.  We get that their job is dangerous, we get the stakes after all these years.  LEAVE SOME PEOPLE STANDING!  Sam and Dean desperately need allies and friends, more than the wonderful Bobby Singer.  Writers and creators – you don't have to kill off EVERYONE!

  • Jenny

    I love the character of Castiel and want to see him stay.  I don't have to see him as a regular (although I would love to see him more), but would be happy with him as a guest star.  That way, the writers could plan good stories for him to have a real part in instead of just shoving him in for 30 secs at a time like he was in some of the eps this year.

    My biggest fear would be to have Cas die a villian or die, period.  This character has sacrificied over and over and maybe didn't make perfect decsions this past season, but the decisions he made were for the right reasons. If they absolutely cannot in any way, shape or form think of a way to write him in, even as a guest star, I want to see Cas redeemed, rewarded and alive.  One of Dean and Sam's friends needs to survive and Cas deserves it the most. I have just become so attached to him, as have many fans, and any other ending for him would just seem cruel. 

    • Jenny

      When I said I don't have to see him as a regular, I meant that I would LOVE to see him as a regular, but if guest star is all they'll give us, I'll take it.  I just don't feel like it's time to say goodbye to Cas.  There's so much more than can do with him.  Sam and Dean may be the core of the show, but they need support from someone other than Bobby. Good, strong supporting characters add dimension to a show and allow us to see different sides of the main characters.  I love the friendship that Cas has had with Dean and would love to see more of that. I think it's good for Dean to have someone that chooses to be his friend because he wants to be, not just because he's blood related to him.  Cas doesn't come between the brothers in my opinion, he just allows us to see a different side of them.

      • another lucy

        What support has Cas shown Sam? Why should Sam want to be Castiel's friend now? I say the boys find another friend who's not so willing to put Sam in a coma.

        • Laura

          This comment makes me laugh so hard. I've seen so many Limp Sam fans screeching about the fact Sam's wall means they haven't gotten the drooling Sam they desperately wanted. Now they might get that and guess what? They're complaining about it.

          Anyway he looked pretty ok to me at the end there so I'm thinking the cage wasn't that bad after all.

          • another lucy

            That doesn't excuse Castiel trying to hurt Sam.

        • Cody

          What do you think Raphael would have done to him? o_O

          • another lucy

            I would have said the same to Raphael if he had put Sam in a coma. At least Raphael never pretended to be Sam's friend.

  • MarghWinchester

    I'll start by saying that I'm one of those worshippers of Misha Collins and I adore him as Castiel, our nerdy angel of light, but I have to agree his character must have a great storyline into SPN so he could continue the way I like him. Forgetting about the angels/demons/Hell/Heaven arc, Misha's performance turned up Castiel into a very loved character and I find very difficult to keep enjoying the show without him,but if the writers decide not to give him the weight to stay in SPN, it's better to let him go forever. Along with all the display of brotherly love and the Winchester Brother's adventures, I think Castiel has a lot to offer way beyond his current status, he suffered and fighted side by side with the boys and he's learning free will is not easy. My vote is for Cass to stay for next season, but only if his story grows and allows us to watch different facades of our favorite winged creature and I'm 100% sure that there's a lot to tell about him an Misha Collins would deliver the necessary to prove we, his minions, were right about our guardian. Castiel means Supernatural and this show's so great 'cause of his awesome work and the dynamics with the boys. If someone plays the betrayal card or even the bad deal with evil, come on! what show were you looking at? those are every seasons issues! Why demanding perfection to him? He's between divinity and humanity, cut my Lord some slack! My humble opinion.

  • Dani

    Thank you so much for this article. I think it sums up the feelings and hopes of most Cas fans–including myself–that I've seen.  I have seen some very reactionary, often rude things said on all sides of the debate, but the majority of Cas fans have been thoughtful and don't in any way expect the writers to forsake the story line just to bend to their will (and, just to be clear, the majority of people who aren't Cas fans or don't really care one way or another have been just as thoughtful, too).  Personally, I'm hoping that they will find a way to keep Cas around, but I'm also of the opinion that if he has to die, then it should honor everything that the character has been to the show and the fans–and Sam and Dean and Bobby–for so long.

    Whatever happens, I'm looking forward to the new season and plan on enjoying all the discussion over the hiatus about where the writers will possibly take us from here! I'm also choosing to trust the writers to bring us a good story yet again–here's hoping they come through.

  • Kate

    I really hope you're right. Like several people have said our worries are all based on conjecture arising from some fairly evasive comments from Sera Gamble. However I don't personally think her apparent (and I realize that's subject to interpretation) dismissal of the character and his fans as "redundant" was the best approach to this as far as assuaging any concerns. The revelation that Cas was originally going to be killed doesn't help (that said, death is meaningless on Supernatural!) and nor do Con statements indicating that Misha Collins has no real idea what his employment status is at the moment. Could it all be a massive publicity stunt to keep us a fever pitch through the hiatus? Most definitely, especially as it makes little sense ratings-wise to write Misha out – but I for one am not going to take that as a given, and will keep writing letters…

  • Vasiliki

    "No one is asking that he appear in every episode or be reinstated as a regular."

    *raises hand* I do; I want Misha to be reinstated as a regular! Because then we'll get him in 12 episodes or so, next season – otherwise, a lot less! (I'd be ECSTATIC if he was in 22 episodes, but I'm used to living with 12… *sigh*)

    Of course, I'm expecting the writers to redeem Castiel – destroying such an established figure of inspiration and comfort in the finale was bad enough, but not turning him back to himself ASAP would be even worse. If I can't watch in S7 the Castiel I've loved for 3 seasons, then I've no incentive to watch it at all. Viewers should be looking forward to tune in for S7, they shouldn't be terrified of it! I don't want to watch Castiel opposing Sam and Dean, I want him to work with them against the Big Bad (one of the best episodes last season was the one where the entire TFW went after Eve).

    The show was about Sam and Dean in S1-3, but since S4 it's not only about them anymore.

    • Jackie

      I agree. Most Cas fans want him around as a regular or close to it. Just appearing a handful of time is not going to cut it.

      • Cody

        This is how I feel. I'm fine with recurring as long as he gets used properly. Once or twice isn't good enough for such a popular character.

    • Jenny

      If I can't watch the Cas I've loved for 3 season, I won't be able to watch either.  I really need to see him redeemed.  Cas has become such an important part of Supernatural to me now there would be such a huge hole if he wasn't there anymore. Even if he was there in body as the new Big Bad, it's not the same.  You hit the nail on the head with your description of Cas as a figure of inspiration and comfort. To see that destroyed for good would be a horrible ending to such a beautfiul character.  Some say that they'll be ok with Cas dying if he dies a noble death, but I won't be.  After everything he's been through, I want to see Cas experience happiness and peace. If nothing good ever happens to anyone in Supernatural, all we are left with is a sense of hopelessness.  The underlying theme of Supernatural used to be the importance of family.  Now it seems to be "no good deed goes unpunished".  I think Cas deserves more than that.

  • muse

    For me, the bottomline is that if the writers wanted to keep Castiel, they would write a story for him that would make that possible. I think this idea that his story has run its course is a fallacious argument. Supernatural is a fictional story so they can take it in any direction they want. This isn't a documentary or even a prequel which has a preset endpoint, especially now that the oriinal five-year mytharc is over. The writers have been making it up as they go along for six years and will continue to do so. If they have the will to keep Castiel, they will simply do so. If they don't  or lack the imagination to try, then they won't. 

    If they want to wrap up the Heaven/Hell storyline and still keep Castiel, there are any number of ways to do that so long as the writers are willing to stretch the imaginations. Going back to just the boys against the world, to me is taking the easy and lazy way out because it just resets a formula that was tired three years ago, IMO.

  • Jackie

    I hate the idea of the show going back to just Sam and Dean. So many wonderful supporting characters have been destroyed, characters that add so much to the show. I think it would be a huge mistake to get rid of Castiel. I don't agree that the writers shouldn't manufacture stories to keep a fan favorite. I think they should do exactly that. Sam, Dean, Bobby and Castiel are the characters this show has left. The writers should be able to write a compelling stories that involve them. Most shows can write for multiple characters, this show can't write for more than one or two. I do love Sam and Dean but they aren't enough to keep me watching. There is nowhere new for the writers to go with just the same two characters. Cas is just crucial to the show at this point. If the show wants to keep him, they could easily come up with a purpose and story for him. They seem to want to get rid of him just because he might interfere with Sam and Dean riding around in the Impala for 22 episodes saying nothing new that hasn't been said before. I think a lot of people who are tired of the same old thing will tune out of they get rid of Castiel. At this point in the show, they should be adding to the Winchesters world, not narrowing back down to two grown men who lives revolve around each other. Cas and Bobby are family. There's no reason not to use them to full advantage. The show evolved from Sam and Dean to Team Free Will. Go forward with that, not backwards.

    • Kate

      I so agree with you. These are professional writers. To be honest, if they can't figure out a way to integrate Cas successfully into the show when fanfic writers manage to do it perfectly successfully into their fics, then I don't rate their chances of presenting anything "fresh" in season 7, and I think more people will just drift away from the show especially with it airing opposite Fringe.

    • erb

      I love ensemble shows.  Even when I've had a favored pair, it's always wonderful to see how a talented cast really shine as they interact with a wider circle of characters.  All the DeanandSamonly folks seem to be asserting that SPN is incapable of writing for more than two??  Doesn't say much about the writers if that's the case and makes me feel SPN wasn't worth the second look I gave it.   That second look was courtesy of awesome Castiel, by the way.

      • Cody

        I agree with you. I'm not interested in the Sam-and-Dean-only show. I see a brotherly relationship that is one-sided most of the time, and Ackles has far more chemistry with Collins that he does with Padalecki. Their scenes burn off the screen. I watched the Sam-Dean stuff with one eye on a book all through season 6 and most of season 5. Season 6 only woke up when Cas showed up.

  • Heather

    Sera said she didn't want to be redundant but just Dean and Sam is totally redundant. More meta is redundant.  I really can’t see watching Supernatural without Castiel.  Another claustrophobic season of Dean caring for Sam, while Sam complains about Dean caring for him is redundant. 

    • Bianca

      More gimmick episodes that mimic the past season's stories are redundant. Her saying words like "noir" and "redundant" and not knowing the meanings of them is also redundant.

  • windykl

    i have been a loyal viewer of spn since s1..and that's what i miss most..sam/dean/and the impala travelling the country hunting and saving people..now cas just zaps them where they need to go; if they get into trouble, cas is there to fix everything..and it's my opinion that a supporting character should not overshadow the main characters..i feel like spn focuses on cas now instead of the winchesters..whenever cas comes onscreen, sam tends to fade into the background..and the finale was supposed to be about the brothers..instead it was all about cas..and how come cas got to tell his side when sam wasn't given the same chance..i'm tired of cas and the angel storyline..i hope s7 gets back to the focus on being about sam and dean..ok, thanks for letting me express myself

    • Eve

      Given that a good 20+ minutes of the finale were all about three different versions of Sam I find it hard to understand why you are saying he was hardly in it. If Sam is fading into the background when Cas is onscreen, that's down to the fact Misha Collins is doing more with his material and has more impact because he's a better actor. It isn't because he's being given more screentime, because he isn't – he has hardly been in the show for most of the season. For that reason I also find it hard to fathom how you can say the show focuses on Cas more than it does the Winchesters – that simply isn't true. The entire first haf of this season was about Sam and Dean – but because the show fell back on the old tactic of driving a wedge between the brothers it wasn't popular. Not having Cas in the show isn't going to change that. Nor is it true that Cas zaps in and saves them every time.

      • tonia

        Sam has been put in the background but he has never faded because Jared is a damn fine actor. Stop putting him down just so you can push your bias.

        • Eve

          LOL, look higher up, I was RESPONDING TO SOMEONE who said Sam faded into the background when Cas was on. That's down to the acting. It's my prerogative to think Misha Collins is better than Jared. You obviously think Jared is better than Misha don't you? Why is it OK for you to have your favourite but not OK for me to have mine? You're pushing your own bias here, honey.

          • windykl

            i was stating my opinion which i thought we could do..i was in no way suggesting that jared isn't a good actor..in fact, jared does a great job with EVERYTHING he's given..and it's not down to acting..it's the writing that causes my opinion…there's no need to put jared down in favor of misha..we all have our own opinions…

    • Ann

      Well said, this is much like how I feel as well.

    • Bianca

      All of this really isn't that true. Castiel has powers and such but if you even remember in season five, they took those away from him. And he doesn't always fix everything. Believe it or not – this is a type of character that many teleivision shows have to keep the plot interesting. Look at Charmed. Not only did they introduce Leo as a whitelighter who could now heal the girls every time that they were injured, but he was able to zap people anywhere as well. However, the show was never entirely about Leo. They even introduced his son as an all powerful being and the fourth sister was half-whitelighter. But none of that overpowered the regular characters on the show. You can't rely on the same formulas from Supernatural's first three seasons to keep the story interesting. The ratings had already began to fail before the show introduced a Higher Power sort of character. I don't think Castiel overshadows anyone. If you're formulating that belief because Castiel finally had an episode from his point of view and took part in an arc the way he has for three seasons now… I think you are slightly misguided.

      • windykl

        again that's your opinion and i'm entitled to mine..and i'm not misguided…imo, sam was never given the sympathy and "doubt" that cas has been given..that's what irks me to a certain degree…

        • Kate

          I can't help thinking you're mixing up fandom's reaction to Sam with the show's presentation of his actions. Fandom may well have raked him over the coals for her perceived misdoings but that is something that is entirely outside the realms of the narrative. 

          The narrative has made it abundantly clear that Sam was acting under the influence of grief and demon blood and was manipulated when he started the Apocalypse. The narrative has made it perfectly clear Dean accepts that and doesn't hold Sam solely responsible for his actions (some of which, like his involvement in killing the nurse, have apparently been kept hidden just as much as Cas opening the panic room door has apparently been kept hidden). More recently, the narrative has made it perfectly clear that soulless Sam isn't responsible for his actions, and has also made it abundantly clear that Dean doesn't hold him responsible.

          If a certain group in fandom still blames Sam that is a fandom issue – it isn't as if the show hasn't made every effort to excuse Sam. It has. Similar mitigating factors exist for Castiel – yet a certain group in fandom will never excuse him, will they?

    • Angie

      S4 was about Sam's crisis and we got his story from his pov only in one episode "I know what you did last summer", but there wasn't Sam's voice in the background saying "I'm doing this because of my brother, even though I know I might be making a mistake", you had only to get it from the acting. Lots of people didn't understand Sam's choices during s4, because it was NEVER explained in so much words like Cas explained his story in 6×20.

      So, yeah, I agree. I feel wronged that a main character didn't have the same attention and compassion given to Cas. I also want the focus back on the brothers, but I don't want them to be the only characters. As I've already said, lots of cool characters were created and they all got killed or never seen anymore. Why should Cas be any different if his story is about to end? I'm all for moving on at this point.

  • Clare

    From what I've seen on various fanboards, the most popular episodes among the fans this season were Weekend at Bobby's, which hardly had Sam and Dean in it at all, and Mommy Dearest, with had all four leads playing equal roles to great effect. A lot of the episodes that were teased as bro-bond episodes didn't even score 2m viewers and the demo fell on more than one of them. I think that gives the lie to any claim that fandom as a whole wants a return to the good old days of season 1-3. I think Cas is detested by a very small minority of fans on a certain forum who want Dean to revolve around Sam for the rest of his days. Since I think Dean revolving around his more special brother has been done to death, I'd like to see Castiel saved and back in team free will. I don't think he has done anything worse than Sam has, and that's proven by the fact the show set up so many parallels between them. Sam got forgiven, so should Cas. I'm tired of being told I'm not a proper fan because I like Cas. He has been an important character and a good friend to the brothers for three seasons now and I'm entitled to like him. IMO the people who don't accept him as important to both Sam and Dean are the ones who aren't proper fans of the show.

    • Bianca

      I honestly believe that there has to be some way of returning to the family business, saving people, hunting things et cetera without making it as uninteresting as this season did. And that there is a way to keep Castiel an interesting part of the story too. It just takes a little imagination on the writer's part … and not penning a gimmick episode on a weekly basis. i also agree that those two episodes had the highest ratings for the same reason. We want to see the story remain dynamic. Last I checked on itunes, The Man Who Would Be King had the highest downloads of any Supernatural episode. Ever. So if people who liked Castiel and supported that episode like us aren't real fans… there are a lot of fake fans paying to download that particular episode. And furthermore on that tangent – how can we not be real fans? How is Castiel not an important character? He's been around for half of the show now. Three full years. That's more screen time than Ellen, Jo, Rufus or a few others that many "real" fans love. He's an integral part of this show, whether people like the character or not.

    • mervin

      Dean revolving around his other special new brother Castiel is not what I want. As for Sam not doing worse, did he kill his brothers like Cas did with his?

      • Laura

        Well he dragged Adam into the cage with him didn't he? It's possible that once Lucifer was gone Michael would have just left Adam and gone back to Heaven since there would be no Lucifer to fight.

        • mervin

          The angels brought Adam back. That's on them.

          • Shannon

            In the adult world, everyone is responsible for their own decisions, choices, and actions, regardless of the circumstances that put them in that position, and unless insanity has set in.

    • erb

      I’m not up on the numbers, but I don’t think the naysayers want any facts to muddy up their insistence on SamandDeanonly.

      But I welcome the numbers talk. 

  • Belinda

    What do I want? All I ask is that Cas's story is told with respect and integrity that is true to the character. If they want Cas to leave the show, fine, I can deal with that, but the story has to be done right. If they just shove him out the door and pretend that the last three years never happened, then yes I would have issues with it because Cas deserves more than a rushed exit. Why not explore the storyline of an angel seeking redemption and rebuilding the love and trust he has lost? Wouldn't be it be more powerful and effecting to Sam and Dean's story to have them try to save their friend and brother instead of just wanting to kill him because he's gone dark-side? Wouldn't there be more emotional arcs to go through on both the boys and Cas if we see him finally get rid of the souls and be real-Cas again and learn to find a way to move on past the mistakes?

    Sera Gamble said it herself that Sam and Dean have a huge capacity for moving forward and getting past the mistakes, that redemption is always possible, so why not give that chance to Cas? If they want Cas to exit after this, then fine, but at least let him exit with the respect that he's deserved after all the contributions he's made in the last 3 years on the show. We the fans deserve to see Cas's story all the way through, and so does Misha.

    I'm not asking that Cas stay around forever or past his use in the storyline, I am only asking that his story be told true to character, not just a black and white story of who's good and who's evil, but the complex and rich story of an angel finding his way back to being his true self as the Winchesters' guardian.

    Supernatural is all about Sam and Dean's story, but what kind of a world would it be, what kind of growth could the boys have if all they ever interact with are strangers and each other? Having ensemble characters like Bobby and Cas gives them the chance to interact with others and explore different sides of the relationship and the characters. A show is as strong as its supporting cast, and this show  has solid supporting from both Jim Beaver and Misha Collins, it's a rarity in TV and it's something that they should keep. "Mommy Dearest" from this season was one of my favorites for the simple reason that we saw all our guys working and interacting with each other, and we began to see how much all of our four characters have grown, how their bond has changed them, how they learned from one another, and we saw how it has expanded from the old days of just Sammy and Dean to now Team Free Will that consists of two boys, an old drunk, and a fallen angel. This IS a family, and families don't give up on each other. If the writers do it right with Cas in Season 7, they could run off with possibly one of the best storylines they'll write about the themes of family and just how far they will go for each other to save one another.

    • ExtraCookie

      Excellent post!  So very many here are; if I commented on them all, I'd be here all week!  Thanks to all of you intelligent, eloquent people for taking the time to share your moving comments!  Anti-Cas folks:  Can you at least see that a running theme in the pro-Cas comments is that it's not all about Cas but, rather, all the main characters and the show in general?  Having Cas just be "evil" forever is not only horrible for him, but for the Winchesters and Bobby for many reasons.  It would forever mar their characters and make this show utterly hopeless.  Really, raise your hand if you want this show to be about amazing, beautiful beings who ONLY ever sacrifice & suffer, with no appreciable payoff or even a shred of hope.  Writers, are you seeing this?  Zero hope is just too sad, too bleak.

       

      "I’m not asking that Cas stay around forever or past his use in the storyline, . . . "  I hear ya, and others stating this, but ya know what?  NO.  They have written Cas so well, fleshed him out beautifully (and given him loads of potential for even more fleshing out; he's ancient, there's so very much to learn about him & his amazing life & so much potential growth & new experiences to savor!) & made him part of the family.  They continually come up with relevant material for the Winchesters and Bobby, they can darn well do it for Cas.  There's no reason his "use" should have a time limit, any more than theirs should.  It's called "imagination," and these writers have it in talented abundance & are being paid to use it in order to keep us happy and, therefore, the CW happy.  The only thing standing in the way of Cas staying with us is their willingness to keep him (or Misha wanting to leave, which, from his comments, it doesn't seem like this is the case.  If it is, I support him and wish him the best.  However, it still doesn't mean Cas has to be unredeemed or to die.  What's with all the dying talk?  Why should he DIE?!  He can leave the show without dying!).  Truly, in this case, "where there's a will, there's a way."

      • ExtraCookie

        Oops, I meant "unwillingness" up there, of course.  And this is, of course, if they do, in fact, want to rid the show of Cas.

  • MsBrightSide

    Great article! I totally agree with it! 

    I will not talk about the things that have already been discussed in the article. I just want to add that for 5 seasons the show has delivered positive messages – family, brotherly love, free will. It was (and I hope it still is) a beautiful love story about the kind of love that can save the world! If the human family hunts Cas, if they try to kill him or if Cas tries to kill them, it will ruin everything for me. What about love? What about doing your best to save your brother? What about family? The show wouldn't be the same show without the essential messages it has always delivered.

    I've always had faith in these characters – but the Dean I love would at least try to save the person he claims was once his family, the Sam I love would understand making huge mistakes with good intentions, the Bobby I love would be the voice of reason when everybody else is too emotional, the Cas I love wouldn't wanna destroy his friends. No redemption for Cas means forever changing all 4 characters! Supernatural has managed to stay positive even when the apocalypse was the main arc of the show. I have faith in writers and their incredible talent. I hope they see how much depth supporting characters add to the show, how they make us see the Winchesters from all the different angles. And last but not least, the brothers deserve to have friends!!!

    • Julia

      Yes, Sam would understand making mistakes with good intentions.  He would understand the lying, and working with a demon.  But that's not all Cas did, right?  I don't think that Sam would understand Cas killing Rachel because she challenged him, or Balthazar, because he helped the Winchesters.  And he knows  that Cas tore down the wall that Dean risked everything for.  Those aren't "mistakes" and I don't know how Cas can be redeemed from that.  Especially the wall in Sam's head.

      • MsBrightSide

        Since when is Balthazar the Winchesters' BFF? The Winchesters were raised as soldiers, so they should know that sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do. I'm not trying to find excuses for Cas but Sam did kill a lot of innocent people too, for the greater good. That nurse in Lucifer rising? She was completely innocent! What about Gordon? – He had good intentions too but they killed him because he was trying to kill Sam. Rachel also tried to kill Cas. Have you thought about Phoenix? Why did Dean kill him? Because they needed his ashes for the greater good! And yet we blame Cas for torturing Dr. Visyak? So we don't blame the brothers but we blame Cas If that's not hypocrisy, I don't know what is.

        I don't wanna sound like I'm bashing Sam because he is my favorite character on SPN, that's why I'm not happy how ruthless they've made him look like and how OOC it was that he didn't even listen to Cas. I mean, come on, Sam Winchester listened even to monsters, he is the most empathetic character on SPN. It's not just about Cas anymore, it's about saving the rest of the characters because I don't wanna watch characters that can hunt their friend without even trying to save him.

  • Kim Debyah

    I was one of those people who were late bloomers when it came to Supernatural. Didnt start watching until season 4….. which (coincidence?) was the debut of Castiel. I dont know why it took me so long to become a fan, didnt really know about the show until my brothers introduced me to it. I instantly fell. Yes, Jared and Jensen could carry the show just fine without Misha….. but, honestly, would it be the same. Yes, they were just fine the first three seasons without him, but now that we know of Cas, we (I forf sure) cannot do without him. Misha supplies the dead-pan humor and over-all FUN on the show. Come on now, ever since i layed eyes on that dreamy blue-eyed angel in the dirty tan trench coat i cant bear to think of the show without him. I had the awesome fortune of attending the panel at Paleyfest and just to hear the ear-splitting screams (mine included) as our wonderful Misha walked out was the icing on the cake and the seal on the deal. We LOVE MISHA. And WE LOVE CASTIEL. We forgive Cas for being oh so bad and we know redemption is in the cards. It HAS TO BE, Please…. PLEASE. Save Castiel. For Supernatural without Misha……. the thought leaves me cold.

  • http://www.worrynet.com worrynet

    It’s a good article. Thanks for sharing!
    Well, for a time ago, one of my friend asked me. “The Winchester brothers found his daddy? Even they got off the basterd who killed their mom? Then what is left the story to tell???” it was season 3.
    I just ask ask smilar thing to Kripke and Sera. “Why Castiel should be under of only Heaven/Hell story arc? Even he didn’t find his father yet.” The story arc is short, but the characters are long.

  • Emily

    Everyone has pretty much already expressed how I feel about Cas and the direction in which he's been taken. 

    If Cas has to go, I just want it to be in an honourable way, not him becoming the next Big Bad and having to be ganked by Sam and Dean. I don't want him to die hated and unforgiven. I really would love him to stay, though, even if it involves him falling and becoming human. He could act as a sort of consultant for the Winchesters. I don't know. I just wish season 7 would start right now so we could see what becomes of him. :D

    • Angie

      I'm sick of the angel storyline, but I want to see Cas go in a decent way, because IMHO every character in a story should have a purpose and fullfill it completely before their end comes.

      So, yeah, I'm curious to see how the story unfolds too.

  • Thomas

    As much as I loved the ghosts and other creatures of S1, my interest in Supernatural peaked when Dean first said "We're at war" then heightened greatly when Castiel said "Read the bible. Angels of warriors of God. I am a soldier."  Both these times I became engrossed in the prospect of a 'brothers-in-arms' relationship being portrayed on the show.  Without taking away from the trials and tribulations that Sam and Dean have gone through, that kind of relationship is a lot more interesting to me than one based on blood only.

     

    That 'brothers-in-arms' bond first developed with Dean and Castiel, then extended to Team Free Will and culminated in the four of them – Dean, Sam, Bobby and Cas – working so well together in Mommy Dearest. To my great satisfaction, we ended up with a triple treat of bonds: brothers, brothers-father figure, brothers-in-arms.  But then Castiel's "regrettable things" came to light and the brothers-in-arms bond was inexplicably torn asunder. And I say inexplicably because what Castiel did to defeat Raphael and save the world is no more morally grey than what Dean, Sam or Bobby have done in the past.

     

    Just for example, were we really meant to accept without question that Dean and Bobby could torture demons to save two people, or to find out the whereabouts of Crowley and turn around and condemn Castiel for torturing a monster to save the world?  Were we really meant to accept that risking a few monsters escaping Purgatory put the Earth in more peril than Raphael and his Apocalypse II?

     

    For Dean, Sam and Bobby to not only turn their backs on Castiel but to actually go after him the way they did is a betrayal to one of their own.  I can't accept that Dean would do that, not with his soldierly upbringing.  And it's definitely not something I want to see carry through into S7.

     

    My personal take on whether Castiel (not Godstiel) has a place on the show is that he most definitely does. I have never found him too powerful for the show as the writers so far have been quite adept at introducing measures to weaken or nullify his powers as necessary.  I also don't think he 'always pops in and saves them'.  Given how few episodes Castiel has been in, and for how little time, that's just a sweeping generalisation which commonly emanates from the bros-only camp.

     

    Anyway, what will be will be I guess.  I just hope that the writers come clean with their plans for Castiel sooner rather than later.  For the first time ever my anticipation and excitement for a new season has given way to frustration and apathy.

     

     

    • ExtraCookie

      Dear Thomas's comment:  Will you marry me?!  ;-D  SO smart and true!  OK, seriously, people, stop posting such great comments; the urge to respond is too great and it's late!

      • Emily

        Brilliant post, Thomas!!! I agree with absolutely everything! *hugs*

    • Steph

      Thank you. It's indeed this inexplicable, as you say, difference of treatment when it comes to Castiel's actions that has proven extremely grating and puzzling to me. How this is resolved come s7 will say whether this was 'development' or an attempted assassination that went awry and hit Dean, Sam and Bobby instead. It was quite jarring in the finale to see those characters arguably making the greater mistakes moralising and boxing Castiel – who has IMO appeared rather more sympathetic than the others this season – into a villainous role. If that was supposed to be the accepted sentiment – that the angel had somehow done terrible, irredeemable things so as to warrant the withdrawal of their support, that this abandonment was somehow 'right' – then I will quite proudly continue to read s6 'wrongly'.

    • Thomas

      Bianca, it is indeed very strange.

       

      Are we really meant to condemn the crimes of Castiel when the moral universe he has been operating in is no different to that of Sam, Dean and Bobby's? Are we really meant to believe that the ignoble alliance Castiel formed with Crowley was somehow morally worse than the alliances Sam, Dean and Bobby have previously entered into?   Surely not.

       

      As but one example from many, from Changing Channels:

      DEAN: A bloody, violent monster, and you wanna be Facebook friends with him? Nice, Sammy.

      SAM: The world is gonna end, Dean. We don't have the luxury of a moral stand. Look, I'm just saying it's worth a shot. That's all. If it doesn't work, we'll kill him.

       

      If we are meant to believe that Castiel has indeed been at war and that the fate of the world was at stake, then we must also accept that some of the decisions he made were morally unpalatable, yet necessary.   Some have argued that killing Balthazar crossed the line but Balthazar had become a traitor and during war time traitors are always dealt with harshly.   While summary executions for treason might currently be illegal in our world, I highly doubt they are in Castiel's.  Or in the world of the Winchesters and the Singers.

       

      Others here have drawn parallels between the killing of Dr Visnyak and the killing of the Phoenix.  One action was condemned, the other celebrated.

       

      Overall, we simply cannot draw a clear moral distinction between the actions of Castiel and the previous actions of Sam, Dean and Bobby.  If, and that's a big if, we were meant to see their withdrawal of support and abandonment as 'right' then that's an insult to our intelligence.   As Steph mentioned, it will be interesting to see how this will be resolved in S7. At the moment, it's looking like a character assassination gone awry.

       

       

       

       

      • DeeDee

        @ Thomas: In a nutshell.  Thank You!

      • Shannon

        To be fair, Cas IS an angel, not human, and it may be that they are going for angels and demons forming alliances(especially to gain power), as sonething that goes against the Natural Order, and so chaos on a greater level  and for all the realms would likely ensue if this were to happen-unlike when humans make the same mistake and only the earthly realm is affected.

        And I'm not convinced that Dean has abandoned Castiel just because he doesn't agree with the way Cas has gone about things. His disappointment in Cas is understandable, IMO, and stems more from Cas going down their same path after witnessing, firsthand, the consequences of what comes of it AND from all the lying and deceptions that Cas used on them in the year+ that he's been working with Crowley. Dean cannot beat the crap out of Castiel(as Cas did when he was disappointed in Dean for considering giving in to Michael), or try and "knock some sense" into Cas with a couple of well-aimed punches to the mouth as he would do with Sam. Dean can only withhold his acceptance of what Cas is doing because he knows from experience that it will end badly; Cas is seeing this withholding of acceptance of his actions as Dean abandoning and not supporting him(Cas) because Cas is unused to how strong emotions can be and and how easy it is to let our emotions run away from us(again I reference the beating he dished out to Dean over his disappointment in Dean in PONR) to the point that they can rule and dominate over clear thinking.

        The Winchesters and Bobby are not the Bad Guys here, anymore than Cas is, IMO. I'm not sure what the writers' intentions were here either, but Dean, referring to Cas as child-like in a number of episodes this season makes me think that Dean gets it as regards Cas and human emotions and perhaps he'll be able to bring our Cas back through that understanding-IF he's able to-meaning if the writers allow it. And I am also one who believes that Cas' stay on the show is only done if the writers will it to be done. There are many ways to keep him in the story. I'm not a shipper, but I love with all of my being the brothers-in-arms relationship Cas has with TFW, and especially with Dean, whom he shares a "profound bond" with-a bond that is more about the pain and understanding of a "soldier's life" than it is about anything else, again IMO. And I would not see Dean lose this after having finally found it.

        • Cody

          I love this comment so much and second everything you say and Thomas too. :D

    • kevin

      My main hurdle with Castiel's actions this season is not the working with a demon, or even for the most part the lying.  It is that he was pretending to work with the Winchesters to do everything from getting Sam's soul back to stopping Eve, but it was actually all a con to cover his tracks.  He knew Crowley couldn't get Sam's soul and yet went along with the charade so that Sam and Dean would think Crowley was dead.  Heck, he had to have known that Crowley was holding Sam's soul over their heads but did nothing to stop it.

       

      I wish it was as simple (for me) as a difference of opinion on how to deal with a problem; Castiel thinks the purgatory plan is a good one while the Winchesters don't.  I just feels more complicated than that, and in many ways it makes Castiel a traitor in that he was pretending to agree with the Winchesters but was actually actively working against them.  And the Winchesters didn't even know that he had different goals.

       

       

  • Kris

    Castiel's whole storyline was stale a year ago. Rehashing it again for season six made it even worse. I can only imagine how horrible it will be reheated for a fourth year in season seven. I hope they'll finally get rid of this moronic angel once and for all. The angels were the worst thing to happen to the show in six years.

    Seriously, if the showrunners wimp out on killing him and keep Castiel around riding in the backseat, the show really will have jumped the shark and lost this viewer permanently. He's Dean's Ruby. He needs to die. These howling fans need to accept that and move on.

    • Eve

      Speaking of howling fans…

      • lola

        They have been rehashing the same storylines for years. If it's good enough for Sam, then it's good enough for Castiel.

      • Kris

        I'll just point to my one (now two) comments in this thread versus your nine and say who's the one howling?

        • DeeDee

          So in your world 'howling' is a euphemism for engaging in discussion? ;) :D

  • Cheryl

    Cass should have faded out of the show in Season 5 after redeeming himself for his part in setting Lucifer free. Something he never was held accountable for. Dean should have found out he had let Sam out of the panic room after lying Dean into the green room trusting Cass would keep Sam out of this and safe  But doing that would be unforgivable in Dean's eye and Kripke knew that so he swept it all under the rug to give Cass a reason to stay onscreen 

    All of Castiels crimes against mankind and his betrayal of both brothers in Season 4 should  have been disclosed and Cass should have been seeking redemption alongside Sam as Sam could never have released Lucifer without Castiel and Cass in Season 5 should have been working his way back into Dean and Sam's good graces and  then had a proper exit from this show. Overusing him and shoe horning him in season after season is what led Kripke (who wrote the season finale )is what led to this joke of a character Cass became in the season 6 finale. I love Cass and Misha but I wanted  the Angel gone in Season 5 along with the Angel mythology which they had totally exhausted. It would have been better for the show, the characters and the character of Cass if they didn't try to extend it as they did no one any favors by doing so.

    Big difference between Sam and Cass in season 4 is Sam was trying desperately to stop the Apocalypse while Cass was intentionally trying to start it and Cass and his follow Angels used manipulated and lied to both brothers doing what ever it took to accomplish their agenda. Cass and Ruby both told the brothers the lie that killing Lilith was the way to stop Lucifer from rising. Sam and Dean both were victims and pawns in all of this conspired against by the power of both Heaven (including Cass)and Hell and they were used and broken into fore filling the roles Heaven wanted them to play in bringing on the Apoclaypse Cas had a huge part in that but was never held accountable and maybe kripke is doing that now when he should have done it then

    Now kripke had Cass hurting Sam to stop Dean, well that was the final clue that he would be a villain. On this show, that's unforgivable .

    Agree with you Chris if the show runners whimp out and have Cass remaining in the back seat. But my reasoning is a little different if they dont have it be unforgivable what Cass did to Sam in front of Dean breaking that wall,the show  and the Dean I know will cease to exist so there will be no reason  to watch

  • Eve

    On this show, that’s unforgivable

    Yeah, because only Sammy gets whitewashed doesn't he?

    • mervin

      That's because only Sammy gets to go dark and do bad things. They never dared to mess with Dean the only righteous man on earth.

  • Ann

    I'm very tired of Mr Collins and Castiel and to have less of him and the angel in season 7 would be a needed breath of fresh air for me. The show has been bogged down by the angel arc for three seasons now and I want the focus and agency to be returned to Sam and Dean and their relationship.

  • MsBrightSide

    Doesn't the fact that viewers (both Cas-fans and Cas-haters) post essays in the comments show just how important Cas is? If he was a redundant character, if his role was so insignificant on the show, no one would bother having active discussions. Just saying :)

    • Raynell

      Oh, snap. She got us good :D

      • MsBrightSide

        *shines halo*

  • lola

    There are fans who feel passionate about this particular character and most of them aren't demanding that he remain a regular, or even on the show at all.  They really just want to ensure that his legacy is preserved in a manner befitting his history.

    And this is exactly what TPTB was going for in the way they have released the info on Misha being dropped as a regular. Now instead of being outraged that a beloved character, who was already drastically scaled back last season, now his fans will simply settle for a couple of episodes where he is redeemed before he is killed off, probably in some big sacrifice for the brothers.

    This is blatant manipulation of the fans by these showrunners and yes it is a betrayal of the our trust and support for this show. I think it's an appalling way to treat the people who have stuck with this show and gotten it more recognition and longevity than it ever would have gotten on its own. Lord knows the CW has never bothered to promote the show so any attention it has gotten has been completely fan-generated and the vast majority of critical acclaim it got, came during season 4 when Castiel rescued Dean from Hell and kicked off the angel storyline. 

    • Jena

      IA with this. If they lose the angels and Cas, Dean is stuck with only Sam and Bobby, and as a Dean/Jensen fan, that's not enough for me anymore and I hope it wouldn't be for Jensen either, and that he'll choose to move on from Supernatural if that happens.

    • http://vasiliki.livejournal.com Vasiliki

      I totally agree with you. I read all the comments and nobody has replied to this part of the article, except for me, and now you! I support the SaveCastiel effort, BECAUSE I WANT MISHA TO REMAIN A REGULAR, PLAYING THE CASTIEL WE LOVE, not this abomination of him they created in the finale!!!

      Fresh and interesting stories that include Castiel are very easy to be created. I can come up with a dozen different storylines on the spot. Here's one: Sam and Dean find a way to difuse Castiel, but one or more souls/monsters escape, and the angel's powers are canceled near them, just like they were canceled by Eve. Team Free Will goes after them, and they must find innovative ways to beat them, like with the phoenix ashes! <3

    • Steph

      This is another thing that's left a rather bad taste in my mouth – that we are now ostensibly pleading for Castiel to be written off respectfully when the respectful treatment of a character ought to be a given. Because they have apparently proposed that a long drawn out villainous arc ending in death or death as a last-minute-redeemed sinner are the only other options – directions they formulated with a mind to having the character killed off, as we now know!

      This articulates why even a 'redemptive death' would be highly unsatisfactory in my view: the only reason there are supposedly sins to redeem for is because they set about putting him down a 'dark path' for the purpose of killing him off with minimal fuss from fans. The supposition being that we should then be satisfied with a 'redemptive death' and be thankful for what little time we did have with the character. 

      I can't help but wince when hearing that a fitting conclusion would be a sacrificial 'redemptive' death. It feels so incredibly wrong because – unless s7 cares to prove otherwise – it wasn't natural character progression but the desire to plant this exact attitude, this sentiment, that motivated Castiel's current character situation. That is manipulation, to force it to a point where the fans themselves are asking that he be removed because they've instilled a fear in us that he will otherwise be completely destroyed.

  • Bianca

    There's no way around admitting Castiel is my favorite on the show. By season 3, the brothers storyline had gotten very old. It was refreshing to see a bigger picture and see some light in the immense darkness of all the times they'd died and whatnot. So when Castiel was introduced and came into his own as a character, I thought it was wonderful. Misha put so much into the character, even beyond the writing, that it was hard not to love the character. For me – Castiel and Bobby were always immensely important. You just can't have two main characters without getting tiresome of the same old ways they play off of each other after so many years. You need consistent supporting characters. Especially when this past season's poor plot device seemed to be killing off pretty much everyone that's ever been on this show and survived thus far. I love the Sam and Dean story, don't get me wrong, but if it's ONLY Sam and Dean my interest died a long time ago. The biggest complaint I have as a fan is how low the bar fell in this year's writing. The story was convoluted and confusing and shows obvious lack of planning. I feel that if they were trying to orchestrate Castiel's exit from the show – they did a pretty piss poor job of it so far. There was no thematic build-up to the finale, so I just don't assume there will be any kind of well-written end for a character that supremely deserves it if it comes to that. Castiel has been integral to the story since season four. I just wish they would give him that consideration before they haphazardly do away with him like a morning-after one night stand.

  • Ozzie

    I'am not a fan of the Castiel character or the angels on SPN, even though I did like Balthazar way more thean Castiel, I will do my dance of joy when the angel crap fades away so we can focus on the brothers up close and personal. I tend to see the impala as being more important and yet we have seen very little of Dean's baby , because now Castiel touches the brothers and poof they are transported. Dean's jacket, amulet and the impala have faded or gone , just like he has grown up into THE DRAMA EMO KING of the one man tear and sweet Sam has megatransformed into Souless Sam, demonblood addicted Sam , tormented Sam and Samfir. The heart and soul of the series which used to get 4 or 5 million viewers has dwindled to a small steady 2 million every Friday Night…because the writers…not the  loyal fans have broken the series up into mini stories, pushing Sam and Dean into  the background and no longer the lead characters …but two characters among other main characters like Castiel .

    • Clare

      pushing Sam and Dean into  the background and no longer the lead characters …but two characters among other main characters like Castiel .

      I don't quite understand how you can make that claim. Castiel was in 11 or 12 episodes at the most and several of those appearances were for about five minutes if that. More than half the season was devoted to Dean and Sam, and some of those episodes, ones that were heavily promoted as brothers-only episodes, had abysmal ratings. If people checked out of this season it wasn't anything to do with Cas and the angels storyline, which only featured at the very end of the season, in a series of episodes that rated higher than the earlier ones. It was more to do with the fact the writing was appalling and that a lot of Deangals got bored of watching their favorite wring his hands over roboSam.

      • Shannon

        This is why I started DVRing this show for the first time in 6 seasons and will continue to do so unless they give me a reason to watch it live again-AKA as a major myth-arc role for Dean that doesn't involve him strictly and only supporting another character on the show-easy enough to do by picking up one of those many dropped storylines from S4 and 5, writers.

  • CassBoy

    Wow, that was a real balanced article. Congratulations.

    Supernatural fandom canen it be very tricky sometimes, specially when it comes to the passion for this or that character.

    I really, really love Castiel, and all the Heaven/Hell mithology. It was really caught me into the show. Seasons 1-2 was hard to pass through, and S3 got me by Dean's emotional drama. But when Cas has come…  man, that's when I fell in love with it.

     

    And he growned so much in the show! Writters has proven that the character has so many possibilities: the first Cas, all obedient angel, than doubting Cas, future Cas, almost human Cas… and with this season, man, Cas was awesome.

    At the bottom, what matters to Castiel's fans is that he gets the respect he deserves, as a key character in the show. Because HE IS a key character, as Bobby is. My personal opinion is that he can fit in the show even without a focus on Heaven mithology, because he's so full os possibilities. But if it's really his time to go, let it be in a decent way, not executed by his family (because HE IS Winchester family).

  • SilverWing50

    I agree with the saving Castiel, and as Dean says at the and of s6 Cas feels like family. I started to like SPN even more when i saw Castiel init… it wudnt be so much pleasure watching it with out him. :/ it's watch it anywayz tho :)

    • SilverWing50

      I'd* lol

  • Joels

    THANK YOU for a fantastically thorough and fair handed article, addressing the 'Castiel controversy'.

    My response in being a firm Castiel fan since Lazarus Rising, my thoughts on this will be in favor of keeping the Angel of Thursday so many of us have come to love as a welcome addition playing a pivotal role in Supernatural ( regardless of the revised Friday time slot!)

    Would TPTB (or fellow Supernatural fans) realistically expect Castiel fans to feel any other way after coming all this distance and becoming justifiably invested with an intriguing, compassionate, self sacrificing and loyal character like Castiel. His otherworldly Warrior of God forthrightness refreshingly engaging played alongside Sam and Dean's often more quixotic human sentiments. So should we instead be forever cynically aloof and detached from all other characters save Sam and Dean for fear our emotional investment be turned on a dime and used for easy dramatic leverage. Are we to believe it's our own silly fault for being stupid enough to care for anyone as much as Sam and Dean. Or wanting them to have a lasting relationship beyond each other…and Bobby.

    You simply can't determine the human heart that way. We love what we love. Characters take on a life of their own beyond the written page or even the original intent of the writer(s) and in no small part because of the actors that engage an audience. I think it's safe to say that Misha Collins gripped our attention tight from the get go and kept it with a subtle and multifaceted performance and imbued Castiel with a powerful, yet sympathetic charisma. So much so that Cas has become a beloved character like no other save Sam, Dean and Bobby.  Many fans now see them as our core cast and particularly enjoy those episodes where we get to see our Fab Four working together. Mommy Dearest being one of my very favorite episodes of S6 for this very reason.

    This doesn't mean we see Supernatural as having an ensemble cast exactly or expect Castiel and/or Bobby in every episode. Rather that they provide an important emotional and practical extension to the Winchester's world. While hopefully being fully involved and developed characters in their own right.

    A similair scenario played out for myself and many fans of Torchwood, which hemorrhaged main cast to a ridiculous degree. Now I'm no longer interested in being presented with all new characters knowing there will only ever be two (or more likely one) that I'm supposed to give a hoot for.  Curiously enough it was TW's Russell T Davies that suggested to outraged fans of that show..they might consider Supernatural as a preferable viewing. Ironic..much.

    Shock tactics with a fan favorite may be provocative and dramatic, but it can backfire and risk alienating an audience. One, if there is no realistic, plausibly established cause to effect. Two, if said huge dramatic twist simply comes off as wildly OOC. Too often I've seen tv characters suddenly perform jaw dropping acts purely for dramatic impact. In fact with Supernatural I'm fairly convinced that where the writers previously dabbled and teased with Sam's darker side from much earlier in the series, they never felt quite confident enough to push his potential shades of gray all the way. Understandably because it didn't sit at all comfortably with many fans. However much Jared relished the opportunity to play it!  Also, Robo!Sam however distressing didn't really count because of his diminished responsibility in being soulless – and even that sad state of affairs got chalked up on Castiel's 'blame board'. So I can't help the sneaking suspicion that this 'good intentions turned bad' theme got placed upon Castiel's shoulders instead and carried all the way to it's power corrupted conclusion.

    Any wonder it can start to feel as if a character is being punished in a way for being too popular.

    Regardless of the preferences, practical and creative decisions Kripke, Gamble & the writing team make… Bottom line is that Supernatural is not the same show it was back in S1 any more than I am exactly the same viewer of six years ago. We've both moved along and grown. I do believe Jensen even commented as much. That of course Supernatural is and always will be at it's heart a show about two brothers, but it's not just about that now. It's much more. And you can't retro these characters or the purview of this show back to 2005 any more than you can the devoted and impassioned audience and fans that have come to love it along the the way.

    I love Castiel and cherish him as part of the Winchester's world. If Sam and especially Dean give no care to saving the angel they called family, then not only will I have lost Castiel, but I will have lost the heroes I believed the Winchesters to be. Destroying..losing Castiel and Team Free Will is what truly threatens to make the Supernatural I enjoy redundant.

    • DeeDee

      Thank You for this!

    • Clare

      Great post: thank you. I started watching this show for Dean and Sam and I now watch it for Castiel too. I will stop watching without him because like a lot of people have said here, I've outgrown this show being just the brothers. I'm sorry Sera Gamble but as far as I'm concerned if I want to watch seasons 1-3 I have my DVDs. A return to that would in my opinion be regression and would be REDUNDANT.

      I would like Castiel forgiven and redeemed because that's how Dean and Sam roll. The Dean and Sam I know don't hunt down and kill someone they love who has saved them many, many times and given everything for them. It makes me feel sick to read fans baying for his blood over at the CW forums and they should feel ashamed of themselves for thinking it would ever be ok for Dean and Sam to execute their friend. They can't have much opinion of the brothers' decency and integrity if they want the brothers to do that.

      • Kate

        I would like Castiel forgiven and redeemed because that’s how Dean and Sam roll. The Dean and Sam I know don’t hunt down and kill someone they love who has saved them many, many times and given everything for them.

        This. It would leave such a bad taste in my mind to have to watch this happen in season 7, and would be such an epic character fail I would not have the stomach to keep watching the show. Like you say, the Dean and Sam I know will want to save Cas, not kill him.

    • SteNovRain

      Can't agree with you more. If they in

      • SteNovRain

        Can't agree with you more. If they insist the character and the storyline is "redundant," which I see as an insult, we just enjoy "redundant."

  • Anne

    I didn't write this but I totally agree with it ! "I disagree that Cass went down a similar path as Sam's from season 4. Sam was labeled a monster by his own brother and lost his way when trying to save the world. Cass cannot blame being lead astray by the manipulation of others (as Sam was) and he had every advantage to turn away. Cass crossed the lines and he did when he wasn't drunk on souls. He was fully rational when he cold blooded murder his followers, friends, and tore down Sam's wall knowing full well that Sam will "suffer horrifically", Cass' own words. S 4 Sam was sacrificing himself under the devastating thought that his actions would make him a monster, be hated by his brother, and he would die in order to save the world. In contrast, Cass wanted power for himself, not necessarily to save the world. In "The French Mistake" Cass had gotten all the heaven weapons and Raphael was forced to retreat. Cass appeared to be getting the upper hand in the civil war, but he still wanted the souls for himself and Raphael became a convenient excuse his pursuit. Cass arrogantly declaring himself God is canon to his character since season 4. Cass had every advantage that Sam was deprived of in season 4. Sam was mistrusted by Dean pretty much from the get go. Cass had Dean's trust until it was proved beyond a shadow of a doubt that he was doing bad things and keeping them secret. Sam was manipulated by both sides, Cass knew what Crowley wanted and he still made the deal. Sam tried to take Dean with him to kill Lilith and wrongly didn't cut Ruby out. Cass got to hear Dean's last plea that he had gone too far and needed to be de powered and that Dean still believed that he could be saved. Sam got a changed voice mail and the message that Dean hated him and that Sam was not salvageable. Cass got every chance to turn back. Sam had very few. Cass crossed over every single line that Sam refused to cross, and refused to show even the slighted iota of self-awareness and remorse that Sam showed at every turn. Castiel embraced his own self-pity and sense of self-righteousness".  To summarize: Sam did what he did out of selflessness, to save his brother and the world. Castiel did what he did out of egomania to covet power for himself and he killed his own brothers and sister because they caught on to what he was doing and said his plan will fry half the world.

    • Raynell

      I love Sam, but when canon is twisted to fit one's agenda, I will have to put my two cents' worth. Sam may not know that killing Lilith would release Lucifer, but he was motivated by revenge, which is a dark emotion. It isn't justice to kill Lilith, it is revenge. To achieve the goal, he had to drink demon's blood, which is something he knew was wrong. If anyone tries to brush that off, please refer to Chuck's comment, who some believe is SPN's God: Drinking blood? You have to know that's wrong. Sam also bled the nurse, even though she was conscious and pleading for her life. Those actions were regrettable and my heart broke for Sam as I could see how conflicted he was.

      Now to turn around and hold Cas to a higher standard just because of one's personal preference is unfair and a travesty. Cas learned about humanity from Sam, Dean and Bobby's actions. They all made deals with the devil. Dean decided to trust Crowley just like that when they were after Pestilence, and left Sam behind because he was convinced he was right. Dean taught Cas the importance of lying to get what you want. I am not saying Cas is blameless, that he didn't have a mind of his own when he made is choices. But considering who his role models were, is it really surprising that he chose the path he did? I do not hate or blame any of the characters for doing what they did ( even if it is OOC but that's another issue). However, do not disrespect and belittle Sam's struggle for redemption and forgiveness by whitewashing his past when it is a part of his journey. Now, it is Cas's turn and it is something he has to face and admit to redeem himself.

      Redemption for Cas should be on the cards, I say, because there is a reason all these characters and show are loved by millions of people around the world. Because the show is about family, forgiveness, fighting together, saving each other and sacrificing for each other. And Cas should be alive at the end of redemption, even to disappear into the wild blue yonder and stop by once in a while, because death of a character in SPN has reached "He killed Kenny" levels. It also to give the brothers some semblance of hope; that they are not cursed and that they can sometimes win the war and not just the battle.

      • Clare

        Thank you for that Raynell. Sometimes I wonder if people are even watching the same show as me.

        In contrast, Cass wanted power for himself, not necessarily to save the world

        I'm sorry, but have you been asleep for most of this season? Cas was trying to stop Raphael from freeing Lucifer and Michael and restarting the Apocalypse. He wasn't doing it for power at all. Someone higher up mentioned this, but I will too: what do you think Raphael would have done to Sam if he had won the war in Heaven?

        • Julia

          "What do you think Raphael would have done to Sam"

          You're basically saying that Cas is the lesser of 2 evils?  Anything goes because Raphael would be worse?  Because less evil is still evil.

          • Kate

            Less evil may still be evil but it's less evil. It makes perfect sense to me that the brothers would have less trouble convincing Castiel to give up the souls than they would Raphael.

      • Julia

        I agree about not whitewashing what Sam did in Season 4, but Sam didn't kill Ellen and Bobby on his way to achieve his goals the way Cas killed Rachel and Balthazar.  Sam didn't do anything on the level of ripping the wall.  Let's not whitewash Cas either or the fact that his actions are basically those of a villain.  The writers took Cas where they never had the guts to take Sam.  They made him evil, so redemption will be more problematic than it was for Sam.  Nurse Cindy is the worst that Sam did, and she was a demon.  Dean, Bobby and Cas have done that and worse to other demons with complete disregard for the host.

  • Shannon

    I think you must have missed the messages in episodes like Good God Y'all and WTLB and The Monster at the End of The Book that told us that Sam chose Ruby over Dean and wound up releasing Lucifer and breaking the last seal on his prison for EXACTLY the same reasons that Castiel chose Crowley over Dean and opened the door to another dimension that could mean the end of humanity also. In both cases, their "selfless and noble" reasons and intentions, while real, also blinded them to their flawed characteristics of  desiring power and control; and to eventually being corrupted by that desire. Cas' story IS Sam's story, just better told, IMO.

    • Julia

      Except that Sam didn't murder his way to the top, or hurt a friend to cause a distraction.  Let's not forget how many people Cas hurt beside Dean.  Sam mostly hurt himself in season 4.

      • Shannon

        You're right Sam didn't hurt a friend. He hurt his brother over and over snd over again in S4, and then almost choked him to death at the end, for good measure-and this after he chose to drink the demon blood for a second time-and all that while Dean was trying to deal with his memories of hell-and let's not forget that Sam was boinking the same type of creature as those who were torturing him while he was in hell. There are all kinds of ways of "murdering" your way to the top. Sam is no better than Cas, IMO.

        • mervin

          Dis Sam kill his brother and sister? Castiel did and showed no remorse.

          • Laura

            Sam did kill his brother – Adam. he was Sam when he dragged Adam into the pit with him. And I haven't seen much remorse for it from him.

          • redstar

            Sam had Ruby slaughter a nurse so he could drink her blood? Just because we didn't get to know the characters who were murdered, doesn't make the act of their murder is any less evil.

            Sam and Cas took very similar paths right down to be being manipulated by demons who used flattery to stroke their egos and bolster their hubris. It will be interesting to see if Cas gets let off the hook as easily as Sam was.

        • Julia

          If Sam had choked Dean and left him for dead maybe you could compare the two.  Removing Sam's wall after what Cas believed the Hell memories would do to Sam was pretty much leaving Sam for dead.  At least Sam stopped himself, you know, so he wouldn't become unredeemable.  Unfortunately, the writers stepped over the line with Cas.

          • Shannon

            Cas said he could fix Sam after everything was over and before he took down the wall, so there's room for Cas to be redeemed there. Not only that, but even if Sam died, Cas told Crowley that he could bring the brothers back in an earlier episode, so there's that, too. Because of Cas' powers, they didn't "step over the line" any more with Cas, than they did with Sam, IMO, and there's as much room for Cas to be redeemed, as there was for Sam, again IMO.

          • redstar

            Sam started to strangle Dean after Dean was already down. That was a deliberately cruel and malicious show of power and contempt that had no other purpose except for Sam to feel like the big man.

            Castiel's breaking of Sam's wall actually had a strategic purpose in that it would distract TFW from stopping him. Also Cas said he would heal Sam afterwards, while Sam didn't even check to make sure Dean would survive his attack.

            So in my book, Sam win's the bigger douche tiara.

      • ExtraCookie

        No, of course he didn't.  All those innocent people possessed by demons that Sam drank from volunteered their literal gallons of blood; that nurse in particular (whom I doubt was the only victim Sam took before the murder spree to power up for Luci) seemed thrilled to donate.  It follows that the slaughtering spree he went on (that Cas, Bobby and even Saint Dean were part of) to power up for his containment of Lucifer was also done on a strictly volunteer basis, right?  I'm sure those trapped, tormented people didn't mind being sliced open & bled to death; it was a nice ending to the fun they were already having.

         

        Yeah, sure, he mostly hurt himself; I'm sure it hurt him worse than it hurt Dean for him to lie to Dean, go against him, sneak around behind his back trusting a demon instead of him and to beat the crap out of him, then nearly choke him to death.

         

        Sam's body count out-does Cas's in their dark stories by a landslide.   How many bodies d'ya think it took to get those gallons of blood? (Av. 1.3 gal. blood per adult; they carried out several gals.)  Cas killed 1 being that he didn't necessarily have to (if he's even really dead).  ONE.  If your heart really bleeds for Dr. Monster the murderer &, most likely, TORTURER herself (hello?  She was possessing some poor mom!) who could've just given up the location rather than have it tortured out of her (and mine doesn't), 2.

         

        We can quibble over the details all we want, but the fact is both Sam and Cas had original good intentions and picked the wrong way to act upon them.  I love both of them (& Dean [though I'm tired of him basically always being right], Bobby and John.  Yep, John) and, though I know they both made huge mistakes, I also know they both originally meant well.  Neither of them were like, "Mwa ha ha haaaa!  I suddenly & inexplicably crave having powers that must be obtained by horrible methods even though, heretofore, I've been a hero!  It will be awesome!"  And, while each individual detail of their dark stories may not line up exactly, their overall situations are damned near exact.  This should be about facts, not personal feelings towards a character.  I dislike the Ghostfacers, but if it were one of them in Cas's place in this situation, I'd still say the overall stories paralleled big-time.  Sure, I wouldn't be clamoring to save said GFer, but I also wouldn't deny the facts of the situation.

         

        BTW, people, I liked Balthazar too, he was fun, but remember he was no straight-up good guy.  Rewatch this season if you need reminding.  Hell, Cas damned near had the right to smite him as soon as he met up with him the first time after being left to think he was dead for about a year (or longer?), while he was living it up and buying human souls (including the soul of at least one child) the whole time, as his sibs (including CAS) were fighting a battle they were set up to lose, some dying in the process (who knows how many sibs Cas cared for actually died!).  It seems pretty obvious that whatever help he offered Cas was really for himself, because, like Gabe, he loved Earth & wanted it to survive so he could continue his way of life; he, apparently, didn't give a rat's ass about Cas himself, just as Gabe didn't give a rat's ass about the Winchesters or humans in general (except for the sick, cruel ways he could use them for fun).  So, yeah, what a monster Cas was for offing this self-centered, deserter angel who lied to & betrayed him, therefore threatening his plan to SAVE THE WORLD & restore heaven.  That meanie!

         

        Oh, and, for the record (pay close attention):  RACHEL TRIED TO MURDER CAS. He had to kill her so that she couldn't kill him.  It's called "self defense" and is both moral and legal.

         

        P.S. Why do Cas haters bother commenting on a site created by Cas lovers that's devoted to saving him?  It's not going to change anyone's mind, so, what's the point, besides intruding & starting arguments?  Ohhh.  I guess I do understand after all.  Never mind.

        • riley

          If your heart really bleeds for Dr. Monster the murderer &, most likely, TORTURER herself (hello?  She was possessing some poor mom!) who could’ve just given up the location rather than have it tortured out of her (and mine doesn’t),

          Since Castiel has been possessing some poor Dad all along I am not sure this helps your argument…and the second part, yikes.

  • lluvia

    Someone please tell me about the relationships Sam has formed and who he's really interacted with on this show, because I must have missed something.  I've really only ever seen Dean interacting with many of the guest stars, and there has been a lot of screeching if Sam ever says a word to them–because they're "Dean's".  Funny how people want Dean to interact with everybody and anybody who isn't Sam because the relationship is so claustrophobic or whatever, but it's OK for Sam to only have conversations with Dean.  And does anyone have proof about season 4 suddenly amping up the ratings and acclaim for the show?  I have a hard time believing that when episodes from earlier seasons got higher ratings than some of the ones from the supposedly "better"one.

    • lola

      Gordon, Ellen, Madison, the Trickster, Ruby, Samuel Colt, Lenore, Patrick the Manwitch and of course Bobby who spent all of season 5 being Sam's cheerleader.

      That's just off the top of my head.

      All these characters have had significant interaction with Sam over the years (and some also have with Dean obviously) but if you don't notice the chemistry between JPad and any of these actors, then I can see why the interactions would be so forgettable.

      • rowena

        psst, lola.  Some friendly advice.  The not-so-subtle digs are not the way to promote healthy and intelligent debate.  In other words most people find it difficult to take your side of an argument seriously when your agenda is so passive-aggressively obvious.

        • lola

          psst, Rowena, everyone here has an agenda.

          But tell me something. What is it about this fandom that insists that only the OTT, hyperbolic whining of Sam fans be given validity while everyone else is expected to be "reasonable" in order to be taken seriously? Do you honestly believe that Sam has been hard done-by when he has been presented as the show's primary hero, the one that sacrificed everything to save the world while everyone else just watched from the sidelines?

          The Sam fans have gotten everything they want including the majority of the season focused on his shiny, special soul, Dean worrying choosing Sam over and above everyone and everything else, extensive "limp" Sam, multiple versions of him talking to himself inside his own head and the destruction of the Castiel character and his bond with Dean.

          And yet they hijack every discussion with whining with how Sam doesn't get enough attention. And instead of calling them on it, you're tsking someone who doesn't just passively nod their head and agree that Sam should be given everything and every other character should be secondary. 

          If you're going to scold people for having an agenda, you should probably apply it equally across the board if you don't want to come across as a total hypocrite.

          • Clare

            Hear, hear. If I hear one more Limp Sam fan complaining about how Sam is fading into the background when the entire first half of the season was all about Sam I will scream. And if I hear one more Limp Sam fan complain about the angels taking over the show when Cas was hardly in this season until the end I will scream.

            Why is it considered ok for them to prioritize Sam but not ok for fans of the other characters to prioritize their favorites? Why is it considered the eighth deadly sin to prefer a character who isn't Sam? If it were Sam in danger of being written out they would be waving their pitchforks and building a gallows for Sera Gamble.

      • Shannon

        Sam also had Jess for two years-and yes it was off-screen, but so too were Lisa and Ben; AND Sam had college friends who truly cared for him, as was shown in the episode Skin. Cas is the only friend of Dean's that we've ever seen who truly cares and accepts Dean in a similar manner. And he has become close to Sam and Bobby, too, as a result of his caring for Dean. Why can we not keep that? Why can't they keep a friend like that?!

    • mervin

      Yeah, a lot of screeching when Castiel said Sam was his friend. Boo, bad Sammy, daring to steal Dean's friend blah blah.

      • redstar

        Well I had no problem with it because I can completely understand that Cas would extend his protection of Dean to the rest of his family. But I've never seen much affection or any real kind of relationship between Cas and Sam so grand declarations of "friendship" do tend to seem unearned.

        • mervin

          I never saw any real kind of relationship between Dean and Cas either so grand declarations that Cas is his new brother do seem unearned to me.

          • Laura

            Some of us have seen no evidence the brothers are hunky-dory either, or that Sam cares about Dean as much as Dean cares about him, but we're supposed to accept it. Deny it all you like, but the Dean-Cas profound bond/brotherhood is canon.

  • Kay

    Thanks for writing such a well-balanced view. I've watched from the pilot, and to me the show used to be about two brothers and their friends and family hunting down evil things and saving innocent lives. It's about friends and family sacrificing lives and homes and souls to save each other (John, Dean, Castiel, Sam, Bobby, Ellen/Jo, Pamela, Gabriel) and innocent people. It wasn't ever about two brothers just by themselves against the world – and I wish TPTB would get it out of their system that this show is not about angsty relationship dramas.

    Now, I love a strong over-arching mytharc, but Season 5 (and most definitely Season 6) proved to me that the writers cannot handle big complicated arcs. I think it's best if they play to their strengths and keep plots simple. They must also surely realize that things work best when the main characters (Dean, Sam, Bobby, Castiel) all work together for the greater good? Like in 5.22, 6.18, 6.19? So, my suggestion is: stop focussing on the angels, and demons, Hell experiences (BOTH Sam's and Dean's), Bobby's library as a vast source of knowledge, Castiel as all-powerful who can cure/resurrect anyone, doom and gloom and every character besides Sam and Dean as untrustworthy, evil and out to screw them, and the focus on the never-ending angst of the two Winchester brothers.

    Instead: give Castiel a good redemption story sooner rather than later, punish him by taking away his powers, and then PLEASE get on with fun, feel-good episodes where Sam and Dean, with reasonable help from Bobby and Castiel and other friends still alive and new friends to come, fight evil and save people. These guys are writers. The excuse of "What to do with powered-up Castiel?" is getting old. Work something out! That's their job! Why should they constantly use Bobby's library as the ultimate resource in the universe? Huh, even Castiel had to steal from Bobby's famed collection to open up Purgatory! Why do the writers excuse Sam and Dean from all responsibility? All-powerful Death creates a Wall in Sam's mind, Castiel wipes Lisa and Ben's memories. Please have ALL these characters be a bit more human and relatable and take responsibility for their individual screw-ups! Writers; be more creative and try a little to keep most moderate sections of your fandom reasonably happy – the fans are what keeps you in your current jobs.

    Sorry this veered off from the topic at hand. In conclusion, I support the move to "save Castiel", and to include him to an extent in the Season 7 story, because otherwise, the writers would have destroyed a character developed over three seasons, and they can ill-afford to ruin/get rid off ANY more characters with their lazy writing and shock tactics which are more annoying than shocking these days. Let's face it: they are not so hot at creating new characters either! Example: Campbells and how even someone of Mitch Pilleggi's status could not make Samuel in Season 6 compelling. To not try to save Castiel would make Sam and Dean even more hypocritical self-involved than they have appeared in the last couple of seasons – and they were NEVER that in early seasons.

  • ami

    OMG this is ridiculous.  This is becoming a fandom that is embarrassing at times.  This is a show about Sam and Dean and let them expand their universe.  Castiel and Angels keep it in this little bubble that becomes about them ever darn time.

    Let Sam and Dean grow outside of the angels and we hadn't heard of the Angels before and we don't need to hear of them after they are all gone.  They take over human meat suits and thats wrong. Its time to say good bye.  I dont' think its the majority of fans at all that like Castiel or Misha.  I'm not a fan and I know many many many that just want him gone.  

    I'm hear to watch Sam and Dean and their codependency life and add all the angst and problems and support and loyalty that involves.  And we don't get that, we get stuck with Angel problems all the darn time.  The finale was horrible and their year was disjointed all because it was around Castiel.  The cliffhanger was boring as, and now we can't even get rid of the problem.  

    Let the writers be forced to write for Sam and Dean again and stop having to make them sidekicks in their own show.  And some fans should stop making this 'all' fans like Castiel.  Because thats not true at all!

    • lola

      What is embarrassing to me is how the writers and many of the fans seem to view any character other than Sam or Dean as some kind of threat to the central premise of the show, which is of course the brothers and their relationship. I think that kind of thinking shows a fundamental insecurity about the efficacy of your lead character which, judging by the credits and the promo material, is Sam. I also think it shows a real lack of maturity on the part of the writing team if they view a break-out character as a bad thing for the show, which is exactly what they seem to believe when it comes to Castiel and even Dean at times.

      • riley

        It has nothing to do with him being a threat to anything or anyone.  To put it simply, the show is the story of the Winchesters.  Every other character on the show is there to support that story.  The writers have stated that over and over again.  I like Cas.  If Castiel can believably and organically be a part of the story then I am all for him sticking around.  The fear for many is that the writers will alter their vision of the story they want to tell in order to include Castiel.

        • lola

          Sorry I ain't buying what you or Gamble are selling.

          Cas' presence hasn't shifted the focus away from Sam and Dean in three seasons, so why should it suddenly happen if they keep him around for season 7? 

          The writers control the story, not the fans and certainly not the characters. So claiming to get rid of Cas in order not to be redundant is the biggest load of crap these writers have ever tried to unload on the fans, and that's saying something. This show has done nothing but recycle storylines for the past two seasons. 

          • riley

            Exactly.  It is the writers telling the story.  And if Castiel has no part in that story then I would rather they don't try to shoehorn him in.  Please don't misunderstand.  I honestly like Castiel, and I adore Misha.  But if he doesn't have a place in the story then what are the options?

          • redstar

            @riley The writers' "vision" ended with season 5 so by your argument, the entire story is now one giant shoehorn that has outlasted its expiry date, to mix metaphors.

            Season 6 was the beginning of a new story and the writers had a completely open canvas. They could have written a new story that didn't revolve around something being wrong with Sam. That gave Dean a role beyond being his brother's keeper and that brought Cas more fully into TFW, rather than keeping him off screen for the majority of the season, only to bring him back to make him a bad guy who would have to be written off.

            If Cas appears to be shoehorned in, it's because the writers chose to write him that way.

            But then again, I've felt like Dean has been shoehorned into the story since the end of season 5 since he brings nothing unique or special to the story. He's just the guy that drives the special guy around and worries about him. He's not even a particularly good hunter according to this season.

    • Clare

      all because it was around Castiel.

      Amijek/Benson35, how exactly was it all around Castiel? He was hardly in the season. 

      I know many many many that just want him gone.

      That's because you frequent the Septic Tank, where your (and your friends) savage hatred for Misha Collins has to be seen to be believed.

      • Aris

        We SPN fans are a vicious bunch, aren't we. Especially to each other, and to the characters and the actors of the show we purport to love. Sigh.

        • Cody

          This person is one of a group of fans on the CW forum that have accused Misha of conspiring to have Jared fired so he can take over, that have said he only has a job on the show because a member of his family runs the CW (untrue) and have said that he "pervs" on Jensen. They are totally abhorrent people, who are all Jared stans. Jared is a friend of Misha's – I wonder what he'd think about the abuse these people hand out to his friend?

    • RJ

      You really weren't paying attention since Sam and Dean were the show in S6 as it should be–Cas was support.  And great support as was Bobby.  Like any show, SPN should have more than just 2 long term characters.  Sam and Dean with just only guests gets stale and claustrophobic.

  • a.m.

    Just stumbled across this article and I am very surprised. I am not an online fan but I watch the show. Can't believe they would unload the guy who saved the show for "creative" reasons. When you lack new ideas sometimes it's better to change the leadership, not the employees. Fortunately with the current time slot they haven't faced the same competition as they did in the early years. But I fear with a move like this, it will probably be the final season. Maybe they should replace the writers with some of their fans. They seem to be more invested.

  • http://donnagaff.wordpress.com/ trackerem

    clarissa, i certainly agree with all that you've brought out & up!! i truly think that had misha not been so upset about his status changing & mentioning that at risingcon spain, maybe this reaction would not be so crazy! do people adore castiel? absolutely! but i also think that maybe there is some righteous anger going on! i dont know how normally these things are handled but considering how close this small supernatural family is, that perhaps this could have been done differently with misha! he is loved, our boys are loved & we all adore supernatural! but as fandom, mistreatment of any sort is not tolerated! my opine!

    • http://vasiliki.livejournal.com Vasiliki

      Misha did NOT mention that in Barcelona. My impression from the Barcelona panels, and from Brazil and Nashcon, was that he wasn't happy, but that's NOT something Misha said outright – he's always been very professional.

      The question "has the character outgrown his use in the storyline?" is a pseudo-dilemma, because EVEN in Kripke's tight storyline, they made Cas fit perfectly in the second half of S4 and the entire S5 – so, when there's will, there's a way! Even easier now, after the end of Kripke's arc, when there are a dozen possible storylines in which Cas could be used seemlesly. (he even lost his powers near Eve of Purgatory – he already knows how to use a blade, time to learn how to use a gun!)

      I was disappointed to learn from this article that the organized "SaveCastiel" effort has shifted its focus to Castiel's brief redemption before he exits the stage, instead of his reinstatement in 12+ episodes next season (as a hero, of course, not as a bad guy), but I still hope that the individual rage by Castiel fans to the unbelievably unfair treatment of him and us (and Misha, although he's secondary here) will be enough to make the writers turn him back to himself ASAP, so that he can work with TFW against the Big Bad for the whole season.

      • http://vasiliki.livejournal.com Vasiliki

        Oops, there's something wrong with the code! Please fix it, if it's possible, because I see I can't edit it, nor delete it.

      • http://dahne1.blogspot.com Dahne

        It is Kripke who wrote the finale.  He's still had a major role in where this season went.  It appears that this is the direction Kripke wanted the Castiel character to go in.

  • Jim

    To me the divide is 1)Cas/angels with supernatural characters exploring a world of fantasy–a series based on Buffy/Charmed, or: 2) Dean/Sam, humans fighting the supernatural, a series based on On The Road/The Xfiles. I've watched it since the beginning and I would have never tuned in to a Charmed/Buffy series about supernatural characters. It was/is the human element, the relationship of Sam/Dean, On the Road Americana, humans against evil, that attracted me. The more Castiel the less I like the show. The more the guys don't solve problems but are simply told by Castiel what's up, the less I like it. Castiel also diminishes the writing: the writers simply have him solve all problems and save the guys, and that simple device has made it too easy for the writers to write sloppy and unimaginative scripts. Castiel as the big bad is however IMO a good way to keep him around. If he stops working his magic for the guys, taking away the necessity of the humans to solve the problem, it could return to humans against evil rather than being a pure fantasy show. I also was attracted to an honest exploration of the relationship of two human brothers and their relationship; it made SPN unique; such relationships are a part of human life and so completely ignored by network television. The Dean/Castiel bit gets in the way of the Sam/Dean story and the Dean/Castiel relationship, a human and a supernatural friend, has been done in every sci-fi series in the past 50 years. There is nothing original or interesting there to me. So, keep Castiel if he is the big bad. Keeping him around will please some of the fans, and even though I think the character is bad for SPN, it will make many fans happy, and SPN needs viewers, But, keeping him as the friendly angel is just turning it into a redo of Charmed or Angel while neglecting and sidelining what made the series unique: the story of the human struggle against evil seen through the relationship of two brothers.

    • Thomas

      I haven't watched Buffy, Charmed or the X-files so I appreciate your view on what the great divide is and that you would prefer the show to be more about humans fighting evil.

       

      So with that in mind, I'd like to put forward an alternative which might be much more palatable to all of us than having Castiel as the Big Bad of the season: have Castiel fall in S7.01 and become human.

       

      He will no longer be able to work his magic and the show will return to humans fighting evil, once again.  Personally I'd rather Castiel remain an angel but I'm certainly not adverse to the thought of seeing him as a human.  It could prove very interesting.  Salt rounds and thigh holsters for everyone!

  • McGee

    I'm not a Casgirl, but I think Castiel is a great character played brilliantly by Misha. I'm okay with him being a recurring guest star rather than a regular, if that's what the story calls for, but I don't want to see him killed, especially if he is killed without redemption. I think the "secondary character bloodbath" has to end somewhere, and the line should be drawn at Bobby and Castiel. Otherwise, mourning all the characters we have loved just becomes too hard. I think Sam and Dean are the core of the story, however Bobby and Cas are perfect secondary characters in that they add so much to the show without ever taking away from the core.

    However, I wouldn't put it past the writers to be misleading in their cryptic comments, and make us believe we need to worry Cas will be killed off in the premiere. Because they say the boys' usual tricks and weapons don't work against the new big bad, I'm thinking the new big bad is Cas, and he'll be around all season–and hopefully redeemed at some point.

  • barjy

    really i don't understand why castiel must put out of the show…he's a part of if from 3 years…he's not just an angel anymore but a part of the family

    that's the plot of heaven stuff will be ending,i'm agree…but castiel out, i'm not…most of the fans like him…i'm a spner from the beginning, i always know that the show is about 2 brothers but i think that the majority of fans who doesn't want castiel are sam fans…i never understand this battle between pro-sam and pro-castiel…this kind of jalousy about relationship between dean and cass…why? dean didn't love less his brother…no, he always put his brother up…never let him down…love him more than his own life

    can he have a friend? why?

    you know what i want for next year…sam saving castiel…they are probably the most too closed characters because now, they had made the same mistakes…

    if castiel is there it's because the fans loved him so much that kripke made of him an essential of the show…don't forget that lot of new fans are coming to spn because of the angel stuff and castiel/misha

    this part of the fans and older fans too didn't understand why their feelings can't be hear by the spn staff who normally takes care of his fans……because if he'll dying or something like that…they lost a part of the spirit of spn…the forgiveness and the way to redemption

    castiel is one of the most complexe character of the show…there are many ways to develop this huge character…a part of a human angel without power will be a great one…

    don't see him like a rival but like a trump for the show

  • stricknine1

    I'm just happy that there's a Season 7, and I'm already hoping there's more seasons than seven!  I love everything about Supernatural and I am always excited to see where the writers take the show.  I trust them to take the show where it needs to go.  I know I will be along for the entire ride!

  • blue

    Thanks for your article.  I'm one of the fans who wants a redemptive arc for Cas, and really wants to see him stick around for season seven.  I've been watching the show since the premiere, but didn't fall in love with it until Cas.

    I'm a little unexcited for season seven if it's just going to be Sam and Dean tootling around in the Impala.  I've seen that already.  Honestly, I really loved the dynamic they had in "Mommie Dearest" with all four main characters working together and helping each other out.  They're a family, and my favorite family on TV.  There's so much they didn't get to explore between the four of them.  I'd like to see them do that.  I love Sam, Dean, Bobby and Cas (yes, Cas most, but all four of them), and would love to see them continue in the "Supernatural" universe

  • Laurie F

    It's time for Castiel to go. But I want him redeemed by Dean & Sam, because I don't want Dean to have been raised from hell be something evil who ends up betraying him. It will ret-con former episodes and ruin tem for me.

    And it needs to be Sam, & especially Dean, who save Castiel, because they never save anyone anymore, partly because of the depressing turn the show's taken, and partly because human abilities have been weakened by the presence of the angel.

  • JM

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    I love supernatural with Dean, Sam, Bobby and Cass together as one big and weird family :D

    I hope that Cass stay in supernatural but please don't cass evil >>> :'(

    • JM

      My comment this possessed :O, please someone fix or salt and burn kkkkkk

  • Aris

    I love all the guys, and I hope that Cas not only sticks around for next season, but is redeemed and he makes up for what he did. He deserves as much.

    Of course the show is about the brothers. it's always been about the brothers and always will be. But they need great supporting characters around them, and Cas and Bobby are just that.

    I love Cas. He's amazing. Please Supernatural, don't let him go and don't ruin him!

  • redstar

    Interesting article but I'm not really sure why Cas fans have to accept a quick redemption and death in order to be seen as reasonable.

    I would actually have no problem with having Cas as the big bad for a bit as long as we knew he wouldn't eventually come to a bad end. When they wrote a similar arc for Sam, his fans had the certainty that he was the show's lead so he would eventually get his redemption and the big heroic moment. 

    Cas fans don't have that same assurance for several reasons, not the least of which are Sera Gamble's comments about Cas being written out after the premiere. The woman really needs to get some public relations coaching because they way she has handled this has been a complete disaster and most of the Castiel  and Cas/Dean fans agitation is a direct result of the way Gamble has comported herself in interviews all season.

    • Thomas

      You are right when you say that Cas fans don't have the same assurances afforded to fans of the other characters.

       

      All indicators so far point to Castiel being the Big Bad for the season but for all we know it could be some monster that escaped Purgatory during the ritual.  If so, then I question whether there really is a need for all the subterfuge.  A little bit of assurance from Gamble would not go astray at this point!

       

    • http://tvovermind.com Clarissa

      Actually, the point is not that Cas fans HAVE to accept a quick death and redemption to be reasonable.  They're also happy to have him stick around as the big bad for next season (although they're sorry to see his character come to that).

      The point is more that in the event that the writers get rid of Cas (particularly early in the season), they would prefer to have him redeemed and to have his character exit in a manner that honors his history on the show.

      • Vasiliki

        Actually. There are SOME fans who want him to stick around as the brothers' nemesis for next season, but MOST of us aren't Godstiel fans, we're Castiel fans, and we want to see him revert back to himself ASAP, and be reinstated as a member of TFW – the "Letters to Cas" show that clearly.

        We want to see Cas in S7 working with the brothers against the Big Bad he helped release from Purgatory, not Cas being the Big Bad. We saw Sam's fall in S4, but he redeemed himself in S5 – we didn't see a season, or even an episode, of Dean and Bobby hunting or being hunted by Samifer. We saw Cas' fall in S6, and we expect the writers to have him redeem himself in early S7… as early as possible, because we also want to see the results of his redemption, i.e. how he rebuilds the lost trust with Dean and Sam during the rest of the season. And these things have to happen on screen, not off screen, in order for the episodes to be satisfying for true Cas fans and keep them watching.

        • Vasiliki

          Sorry about starting my comment with "actually". I had started with "Hmm", but changed it to "actually" before I posted, and I just noticed you had started the same way and it may make the tone of my comment appear negative, which wasn't the intention behind it. :)

    • Cody

      THIS. I don't want Cas redeemed and summarily exploded in 7.01. I want him there all season long earning his redemption as a member of tean free will. And yeah, Gamble's comments are really offensive to a loyal part of the show's fanbase (Deangals too) who hung on this season through the boring roboSam to get precious little back in return.

      • Vasiliki

        *sigh* Why are so many people worried about him dying in 7×01, when we should be worried about how much they're going to vilify his character next season, to the degree we'll be begging them to kill him off? (as if last season wasn't enough!)

        Godstiel won't die in 7×01, because Sera Gamble practically revealed so, when she said the finale was "a pivotal moment in his development", and "Basically, that’s what we’ll be exploring next season, so there’s just a big change." They can't "explore" this in only one episode, so Godstiel has to survive 7×01.

        Also, Misha practically revealed so, when I said I could watch next season if Cas reverts back to himself in the premier, and he replied "they're going to milk it". Only his own opinion, of course, since he hadn't read the script yet, but if they wanted him only for one episode, he wouldn't have said that.

  • Jim

    Thomas–your suggestion that Castiel become human really highlights the problem. Their are a group of fans who are fans of Collins and want him around regardless of what character or kind of character he is playing–human or supernatural. Although I don't agree with them, that leads many fans to say that those people are not fans of SPN but fans of Castiel; they want the character/actor regardless of how he fits into the show. As an angel, he will dictate that the heaven/hell plot continue thus tying the hands of the writers to continuing that plot and lots of fans are tired and bored by that old story. Many people are as tired of the angel stuff as some people are/were of the original version of two guys in the Impala doing monster of the week.(The angel plot has actually lasted longer than the original underlying plot.) If you make Castiel human, you get three men in the Impala and three's a crowd. It becomes the Dean show with his two supporting characters Castiel and Sam which sets off lots of resentment by Sam fans at the downgrading of his role. (That was tried in early season 5 and it didn't work.) Making Castiel the big bad seems to me a good choice: it gives Collins a real role in the series without changing the focus of the series on the central relationship of Dean/Sam.  The best choice IMO would be to develop a Sam/Castiel relationship, which for some reason the writers have never really done; that would end the competition between Sam and Castiel fans which seems to underlie so many of the comments. IMO Castiel fans attacks on Sam, and even Jared, are not helping Collins/Castiel at all. The fact is Warner Bros has a worldwide franchise and investment in the story of Dean and Sam, and the studeo is not going to dump that investment and change the show into a Dean/Castiel enterprise. Krepki and Sera are not going to have their creative hands tied in order to satisfy the fans of Collins–nor should they. Its an old show marching toward its end; it will continue as the story of Dean and Sam, and even in this discussion, dominated by Castiel fans, most recognize that the central focus is the brothers. As i said, I'm not a Castiel fan or a fan of Collins' acting which I think is marginally competent at best, but in the spirit of this first rate article, I'd like to see the series find a way to include Collins and his fans. Making him the big bad is ok with me–giving him a real relationship with Sam would be the best solution.

    • redstar

      "Just because you state something as fact, doesn't actually make it so. Having Dean brought into the mytharc worked just fine plenty of fans. Especially those of us who are tired of the Sam Show with everyone else being supporting characters.

      Going by what I saw of the online commentary, the majority of fans and critics were fine with the more even distribution of plot in seasons 4 and early season 5 and it wasn't until Kripke and Gamble suddenly pulled the bait-and-switch after 5×18 to make everything all about Sam again, that dragged the show into the morass that it has been in ever since.

      When the writers insist that everything must revolve around Sam and only around Sam, that ties their hands where every other character is concerned.

      Look at Dean's so-called domestic arc. Because the character wasn't allowed to be anything but a satellite to Sam, the Lisa/Ben story got the most superficial and nonsensical treatment.

      Cas was forced off screen because the character does have much of a historical interest or connection to Sam despite the writers pretending that he does for some outlandish plot purpose every once in a while. Instead we got stuck with the Campbells, the most useless characters this show has ever produced. because they were connected to Sam.

      It is Kripke and Gamble's insistence that the show can only be about Sam, that has made it the repetitive, over-ripe tripe that it was in season 6. Why they resist writing a mytharc for the two so-called leads, I have no idea, but it is clear that they have no interest in developing any kind of storyline that doesn't place Sam front and center and that is what is destroying their show, in my opinion. 

      They play lip service to the heart of the show being the brotherly bond, but that bond primarily flows from Dean to Sam which then continues to make this Sam's story rather than the brothers'.

      • mervin

        Oh right, keep on blaming Sam for everything. Cas was forced offscreen because his story is over.

      • Shannon

        Sadly, I have to agree with all of this. I don't know what happened with the writing at about mid S5, but everything just fell apart in the way you have described, IMO too-and they haven't gotten the magic back yet. *Fingers crossed* that there's been some heavy duty re-thinking after S6-what I see as their poorest writing season ever.

    • Jena

      I think it's been shown very well this season that Cas already has a real relationship with Sam. It's just not the same, or as intense and compelling as the one that he has with Dean. Sometimes that's the way it goes in relationships(even real-life ones). And shoving Sam and Cas down our throats even more than they tried to do that this season isn't going to change that for me-or many others, going by the boards-except to make it seem even more as if the writers feel that everything and everyone on the show must revolve around Sam as if he is the center of the universe. Enough already.

      If they want a similar special someone for Sam then, they're writers, FCOL-they should just write someone in for him. I'm well aware that this is the story of Dean and Sam Winchester, but I'd still like to see more of Dean and Cas than we got this season-not less, and I'd especially resent it if it's because Sam(and JP) must be given equally or more of what some feel Dean(and JA) have been given. Sheesh.

      • mandy

        It's easy to develop a Sam and Cas relationship – just write it the way they do the other relationships on the show. It can be done. There's so much potential there.

        • Shannon

          They did that this season, IMO too. His relationship with Sam is not going to be as it is with Dean-nor should it be, again IMO. It's been nice to have a character on the show who put Dean before all others, much as Dean has put Sam before all others life-long. I'd hate to lose that.

          • mandy

            Yeah sure, Castiel putting Dean first by hurting Sam. Nope, more like Cas putting himself first. It's all moot anyway as from now on, the friendship is finished.

          • Jena

            Maybe it's finished. Maybe it's not. I hope not; and the question of whether it should be is kind of the point of the discussion here, and I meant to say thank you for the opportunity to voice what we think here, Clarissa. 

    • Cody

      If you make Castiel human, you get three men in the Impala and three’s a crowd.

      Why would he ride around in the Impala? There's no reason why he can't be independent from Sam and Dean, maybe hunt with Bobby.

    • DeeDee

      Does making Castiel mortal make him human?  The reason I don't mind seeing Castiel as a mortal (although remaining an Angel would be my preference) is because it would make an interesting tale – an Angel without powers – that's how I see it.  He'd never be human so I don't see it as being the same old story.  There are so many ways to run with this that I'm buggered if I can understand why there seem to be so many issues abounding.  I honestly do not see why Castiel would become just another hunter.  Why would he want to join the hunt exactly?

      Okay he learns about free will so why not make that problematic, why not show (through Castiel) the inherent paradoxes of free will?  Why not show Dean (I think it has to be Dean) just exactly how complex this thing really is.  I'd love to see Dean grow in this area, that he let go of his black and white comfort blanket and get his worldview muddied a little.  I'd have far more respect for him (and btw he and Sam are absolutely equal in my affections.  I'm a Castiel supporter, but that cannot ever eclipse the affection and regard I have for the Winchesters) and I honestly believe it would help him to grow as a person

      The underlying story, you say, yet to me the underlying story is the Angel/Demon connection with Sam and Dean.  I honestly do not understand why there's this belief that it's about hunting evil things  – yes, that is their day job and there's a reason for it but isn't the underlying story that bloodline connection to Cain and Abel and thus the fact that there's an inherent connection to Heaven/Hell?  Just because it wasn't at first clear that the bigger picture was this bloodline connection, this destiny that was playing itself out, does not mean that the show is about Sam and Dean hunting evil things.  I really, really liked that – seeing them at work, doing their job – but that was just a part of the story and that part of the story has got to evolve.  I cannot believe that we're expected to simply forget that we met the Mother of All, of all evil things in this world, that we (Sam and Dean inc.) got an insight into that world and yet the thread is supposed to be dropped and they just go back to business as usual.  Why was Eve introduced in the first place?

      You know, SPN has got a hell of a lot of damn confused messages going on here and I applaud those who try to pretend that it all makes sense and is actually coherent.  The creator had an absolutely fantastic vision and I definitely give him kudos for it and especially for taking the brave step of having the ending be Sam's ultimate sacrifice and Dean finally getting the chance to find happiness with a nice family.  That made sense to me and made real sense of the entire story arc.  Season 6, however, has real problems since, you know, the story is absolutely played out.  They could have gone anywhere with it and they made some interesting choices, not all of which came off.  My hope is that season 7 will see a little more coherency in the overarching story and that new life is breathed into Sam and Dean's story.  I'd have to say that probably won't and can't happen if it goes back to them fighting evil in the world.  I personally think that this is so damned played out and after 6 years of buying into that same old same old I'm ready for something fresh and creative.  I can think of so many things they could do – none of which involve Castiel as the Big Bad.  The very fact that there has to be a Big Bad is what I see as a problem tbh.  They can pretty much do anything they please and there is something I think they should do which is something that would probably never occur to them.  Hell I can honestly and truly think of many, many things they could do which would probably never occur to them.

      • Jim

        I think the series plays to different audiences. To me they have never stopped fighting evil whether in others or themselves. The story of the conflict in heaven was never why I watched; it was just a background; no different from the yellow-eyed demon. My attention was never on the angels or demons as anything more than how they related to the story of Sam or Dean. They are flawed human heroes on a journey, and their journey is the message, classic myth-telling. Don't really care about the journey of an angel or demon; that's a devergence from the story I follow. A Castiel story is just filler to me–and while I can tolerate it, as a means to give Ackles and Padalecki a break, its boring and off-subject. I simply don't identify with an angel; its not my status on earth. I can identify with Sam and Dean. I don't care about Krepki or Sera's view of God; I have more traditional and learned sources for religious guidance.

        I watch it, and I don't think I am alone, for the brother's story and good horror/sci-fi scripts. And, I've become a fan of Ackles and Padalecki and like to follow their development as actors–which has been amazing. 

        I don't think there is one way to watch the series; that I am right and you are wrong. I just don't want the reasons I watch it made secondary or eliminated to accommodate those who watch the series for Castiel and the heaven v. hell plot which to me holds no interest. 

        • Vasiliki

          "I simply don’t identify with an angel; its not my status on earth. I can identify with Sam and Dean."

          Cas isn't just any angel – maybe you can't identify with him, but there are MANY fans who do, in the same way fans identified more with Spock (another non-human) rathen than Kirk back in the day. Socially awkward, not getting all jokes, sticking with his friends against his family, loving someone who loves someone else (I don't mean sexually), having doubts if he's doing the right thing, etc.

          • Jim

            I agree that many people make the connection with Castiel and I have no problem with that. Its a big family of fans. What I object to is transforming the series into a teen fantasy soap about superntatural characters. There are plenty of those series in re-runs and CW is pumping out some new ones for the fall. You can follow witches, vampires etc. endlessly in other series if you identify with them. SPN has been about a human struggle and I want it to continue with that underlying theme. I don't think you can really address questions of good and evil if your characters are supernatural; they don't make human choices like Dean, Sam, Bobby, Ellen, etc. Sam becoming supernatural with his powers was treated as a tragedy–it threatened his humanity. Dean has never been given supernatural powers, thank Krepki for that. It has consistently been about humans, and at least IMO that has generated the intense loyalty so many people have to those characters. When the Winchester family becomes human and supernatural, SPN becomes just one more CW teen fantasy soap designed to entertain teen girls. That's a perfectly acceptable commercial venture and what CW probably wants it to become, and the network apparently loves Castiel and has never really loved Dean and Sam and their story. I'd say that's because Dean and Sam, as aggressive real human male characters, are somewhat threatening to many teen girls; the nerdy, sexually non-threatening Castiel, who let's face it is a slash partner for Dean, fits the CW profile much better. The huge, never mentioned fact is that half the  SPN audience is and has always been male and they are almost completely absent from internet commentary. They don't watch the CW much but they do watch SPN; they won't watch a Castiel angelfest built around Dean-Castiel slash. That would probably draw more of the CW's prized teen girl demo, but as CW has found, and  is going broke doing so, that audience bores quickly and has almost all of US commercial tv catering to it (and rightfully so, they are the principal US consumers of the future.)  Krepki and Sera have resisted the temptation to turn SPN into a typical CW series and reached a non-typical CW audience; it has included teen girls and they have been great for the series on the internet( I applaud all their tireless work on behalf of the series), but I don't want to see SPN by concentrating on Castiel begome Gossip Girl with monsters or Buffy with a male cast. That's not something I'd watch.

        • Laura

          The story of the conflict in heaven was never why I watched; it was just a background; no different from the yellow-eyed demon. My attention was never on the angels or demons as anything more than how they related to the story of Sam or Dean.

          And there's no real reason why this shouldn't continue in the background. it makes more sense for continuity than pretending it never happened and writing Cas out. Cas's tragedy is part of the Winchesters' story, and can be told in a way that relates to Sam and Dean as the center of the show. They can't just forget he exists or not try to save him. And there's no reason why he can't be depowered or fall and continue to be in their lives. The show can accommodate everyone and it needs the Cas fans for the ratings.

          • Jim

            I basically agree with you Laura. Keep Castiel as a supporting player. I'm just trying to push-back from those who constantly campaign for a Dean/Cas angel/demonfest that eliminates Sam, Sam and Dean as hunters, the human story, and turn SPN into a replay of old Charmed/Buffy plots with a Dean/Cas slash relationship as its core.

          • DeeDee

            @laura: ITA

             

             

            @jim: That's quite unfair of you to keep making this about those you claim are intent on making it a Dean/Castiel Demon/Angel slashfest. Come on, don't do that. You know damn well that will never, ever happen. (And while we're here why not condemn the show for making Wincest so goddamn easy, for making it harder not to go there! ? Or do we have different standards in operation? (No emoticons, but I'm winking here) )

             

            Having read all the commentary here I honestly have not seen any evidence of that: I haven't even seen any evidence of a desire to exclude Sam. I've seen harsh things said about Sam, but I'd have to say that that's usually happened as a result of trying to draw parallels between Castiel's actions and motivations and Sam's actions and motivations. If Castiel's inclusion takes anything away from Sam well that's down to the weak writing if anything. How on earth can Castiel take anything away from the brotherly relationship between Dean and Sam, ever, ever? I honestly, sincerely, do not get that.

             

            Slash happens, babe – it doesn't have to be on our screens to happen. Most fans can easily separate canon from fanon – and are bloody happy to. You might well be surprised just how many fans don't see the Dean/Castiel relationship in a slashy way at all and are happy to have it be what it is on screen – they don't need it to become slash to enjoy it and want to see it developed. Come on, stop lumping all fans under one derogatory blanket description and thus dismissing reasoned arguments that have made no reference ever, ever to a slash relationship between Dean and Castiel.

        • http://dahne1.blogspot.com Dahne

          You are not alone.  For me the heaven vs. hell storyline was just that – a storyline.  It's over and it's time to move on in the same way that they killed YED and moved on.

  • Aris

    We SPN fans are a vicious bunch, aren’t we. Especially to each other, and to the characters and the actors of the show we purport to love. Sigh.

  • lluvia

    What cracks me up more about all the outrage over whatever the new wank is this particular week is that outside of the fandom, nobody cares.  I don't see anyone at Entertainment Weekly or TV Guide or any other major entertainment outlet that covers TV expressing any real interest in any of the brouhaha.  This show and the actors really have always been under the radar, and since it's in its seventh season, I don't really see that changing.

  • C

    Nothing against Misha or his character, but I liked the show better before the whole angel storyline came into it.  This sounds hugely insane, but I could somehow believe in demons but angels fighting each other?  Just can't buy it . . .

    • mervin

      Me too. I like the show better without the boring angels. I don't want to see Dean wringing his hands over his special angel brother. Let Castiel be the new big bad.

      • Jena

        I like the show better with the angels(I think their being added in saved the show) and I don't want to see Dean wringing his hands over anyone in S7. I had enough of that to last me a lifetime in S6. I don't want to see Cas as the Big Bad, but I think something awful that he let in from Purgatory would work great. I'd like to see more of Dean as the Demonhunter Extraordinaire-kind of like he was in S2-BAD. ASS. for most of the season.

        • DeeDee

          You don't take many words to make some really salient points!  I agree with every single one!

  • Harper

    What a wonderful article!  Thank you for presenting such a clear and concise picture of why some of us adore the character Castiel and long for his redemption and return to the nerdy angel we love.  I fell in love with this character the moment he appeared in Season 4 and have never stopped loving him.  My hope is that Cas falls and becomes human.  Imagine the drama and angst he would face as he deals with betrayal the men (Dean, Sam, Bobby) he loves and sacrificed so much for.  Thank you also for providing a forum for fans to discuss their various viewpoints.  At the end of the day, whatever new adventures wait for Dean and Sam, I hope there will still be room for the newest member of  their family.  And I hope that they will forgive him, like they forgave each other.  I believe Castiel's story is almost Shakesperean.  Full of tragedy and sacrifice, he has acted just like a Winchester.  And hopefully, like a Winchester, he will be given a chance for redemption.

    Many, many thanks again for such a well written, thoughtful article about the angel (fictional character though he may be) that I love so much.

  • arianne

    — i still lov watching supernatural..evn b4 castiel stepped in, or mr.misha, i had learned a lot of from sam and dean..on how they give importance to each odrs as brothers.. i love d part wen dey cried both or wen they talk heart to heart…:)

  • Fisher

    There's a plethora of great comments on this page; I took the time to read through every single one, and it's definitely provided some insight. On my part, my feelings are pretty simple:

    -SPN began with Dean and Sam, and will forever revolve around Dean and Sam. Just because more pivotal characters stick around does not change this fact. In my view, there was never any spotlight stolen from the brothers; everything affected and changed them in some way, and these changes (some we may like, some we may dislike) became a part of who they are.

    -I welcome Castiel with open arms; after S1-3, I felt like things were getting a little slow. Castiel brought something compelling to the show, and while I do agree that the whole angel thing was getting a bit tired and worn, I'd still take it over an extended S1/2 of continued hunting and bro-angst any day. If things had gone on with only Dean and Sam, people would still be here asking for something different and fresh.

    -This isn't to say I like Castiel better than the Winchester brothers. If anything, I like them all on the same level, but for very different reasons. Sure, there are things that bother me about each character–but there are also things that I find absolutely fascinating and compelling; it's their culmination of imperfections and strengths that make me love them so much– No one is blameless. This especially holds true for Castiel. Hearing people call out for a swift execution of his character is somewhat wounding.

    Everything else is pretty much left to the future.

    I'm crossing my fingers for more of Castiel, whether the odds are for or against it.

    My practically irrelevant two-cents. Sorry for the ramble/rant! x)

  • SF

    Supernatural is about family. Castiel became family. It is so simple as that. Family is important and it doesn't end with blood. We can see it with Bobby. Cas is important to the Winchesters (At least, he is important to Dean). He is their friend. After everything we saw Castiel doing to the brothers, yes, I want him on the show. I want more character development. I want him to be okay again.

    This character brought something new to this show. It made it better, in my opinion. The show has to evolute. It can't have always the same story! Yes, Dean and Sam are the main characters, but what do you want? A show only with the two of them? 

    Supernatural will always be about two brothers. Yes, but that  doesn't mean they can't have their friends and their family with them. 

  • http://likeabrokenhallelujah.tumblr.com Hannah.

    Castiel is more than just any angel. Sure, he's had some downfalls, and he's made mistake such as working with Crowley… but who in the show /hasn't/? Dean's made deals, Sam's made deals… hell, even Bobby made a deal with Crowley to help everyone. Call me crazy but that sounds a lot like what Castiel was doing. If they kill of Castiel in season 7 or at any point throughout the series, I will be more than just 'disappointed' it will be a major blow to me at the loss of a major character who played an extremely significant role in the lives of The Winchesters who showed him how to feel for the first time.

    Now, though I'd still be more than furious – if Castiel does die I want it to be a Hero's death. Give him the exit he rightfully deserved. If he goes out, let him go out in a blaze of glory. Something that everyone in the SPN!Fandom can be proud of.

    -SPN!TUMBLR FAN

  • Rax

    OH MY CASTIEL! I can´t believe it! Castiel is a wonderful character. No one has complained about Bobby-episodes and seems that people accept that Bobby is part of the Winchester family but Castiel no. Well, you know what? You´re wrong. Castiel has made more much things for the Winchesters than even Bobby. He is loyal and he deserves some respect for the fans. Is my opinion. I hate how fans don´t understand Castiel.

    PS: Sorry for my english. ^^

  • Sam

    I love Castiel. I think he's beautiful and amazing. The show doesn't revolve around 2 brothers anymore- it revolves around family, and Castiel is definitely part of that. SAVE CASTIEL!!

  • Abby

    I'm worried for the future of the show.

    If we eliminate Castiel, it's back to Sam and Dean again, and there's only so many times they can fix and mend their relationship before it becomes too damn repetitive.

    When you have Cas in the mix, there are so many new possible plotlines.

    Plus, Cas is an incredibly important character to Dean. Everyone eventually betrays or leaves Dean, and Cas is the only character who hasn't. Dean's burgeoning faith that Cas had begun to encourage will be crushed again. I don't want to see him angry and lonely and cynical again, with Sam as his only outlet.

    I'm looking forward to the possibility of S7 being for Cas what S5 was for Sam: a time to mend Cas and Dean's relationship, for Dean to maybe realize that he should trust people not to leave him or screw him over (killing Cas will be very counterproductive to that!), and for them to continue showing the greater picture than just Dean and Sam killing things every day.

    Supernatural has always been about family. I pray that Dean and Cas will realize their feud is just like the end of season 4, where Dean told Sam not to come back if he walked out that door, and they finally realized family doesn't work like that. They'll find a way to get Cas de-souled, even if it takes them all season, because just killing him simply won't work — he's family, and they'd never dream of just killing Bobby, Jo, or Ellen if they lost perspective similarly.

    I love Castiel, I love the relationship between Dean and Castiel, and I can't wait to see what the writers do with it. I'm not going to prematurely jump the ship and say they're killing him or they're going to go against everything Cas stands for, but if that day comes, I'll be hollering at the top of my lungs like everyone else.

    For now, I'm just going to trust the writers… and have faith.

    • Abby

      *everyone who isn't family eventually betrays or leaves him… I'm not counting Bobby, as he's practically their father in every way.

      But Dean needs to be able to realize that "family don't end with blood".

  • Liz

    People need to realize that Cas has become an important character in his own right, and by simply existing, he isn't taking anything away from Sam and Dean, like so many people seem to be saying. He's become family, just like Bobby. Nobody's saying Bobby should go, and his character serves a similar purpose to Sam and Dean, always helping them out and everything. If Cas has to go for the good of the show then fine, but at least do the character justice. Don't turn him into a giant douchebag and then kill him off. That's just ridiculous, but unfortunately it looks like that's where things are heading.

  • http://didhesayonabender.tumblr.com/ Ariel . Brazil

    I'm so glad to hear that the fans are not leaving it alone.

    I just don't get why it's so hard for some people to understand that Castiel is as much important to the show as Dean and Sam. I don't agree when they say SPN is about Sam and Dean. If you see the show this way, okay, different strokes right? But I'm a fan too, and to me, this show is about family, unconditional love, overcoming your own doubts and flaws, never giving up, humanity. And even though Cas is a supernatural creature, he has it all. He even made myself feel more human.

    Let me tell you something: Supernatural has helped me through a long hard time of my own life, and Cas is a part of it. A big part of it. And I don't want his character to be assassinated because of bad lazy writing, or a desperate attempt to "bring you stories that are fresh" or some other bull. I want Castiel to be treated with respect just as much as I want respect for myself.

  • Bianca

    It's true that the core of the show is Dean and Sam. But also, its family. And Dean has already stated that Castiel is family. Castiel has grown from a small character that they weren't even sure would be received by fans to a character that is garnering this type of attention. Obviously, he is worth saving if so many fans are dedicated to saving him. No one is trying to take the attention away from Dean and Sam. But haven't we taken enough away from Dean and Sam? Such as John, Mary, Jess, etc. If they lose Castiel, I'm sure Dean wouldn't be a happy camper. That's just too many losses. Not only for my love of Cas but for my love of Dean, Sam, and Bobby, I hope Cas is saved.

  • Sara

    Personally, I'm mad at the fact that they seem to have sacrificed Castiel's character for the big twist. When Ruby turned out to be bad, half the fandom screamed "I KNEW IT!" and the other half said "I had really hoped that wasn't so." But we ALL saw how it made sense, how it fit into the story-line, and how awesome it had been brought about. With Castiel it was a 180 turn in five minutes! The entire season, up until the finale, they made us see his side and care for him. Then it seems that in the last five minutes they were like "oh right, he's supposed to be bad" and they made him turn. BUT IT MADE NO SENSE. Right now, most of the fandom wants to see him get redemption, not necessarily because we don't like seeing him as the "big bad," but because we don't see him as the "big bad" in the first place! If they had actually displayed character development in his road down the wrong path, I would be on board. But for them to want me to just accept them telling me that one of my favorite characters is now bad, is crazy. If they wanted to take him away, they should have given him the write out that his character deserves, not a half-assed one. 

    I've been watching since the beginning and LOVE the Winchesters, but I love and care about Castiel just as much.  

    For the first time I'm not sure who to cheer for.  

  • Karen

    The only thing that kept my interest in season 6 was Castiel. I loved the show before he was on it, but 3 seasons of the same thing was getting boring, until Castiel came and gave the show a new lease of life. I think it's insane that not only are they not giving him more screen time but they're taking him away. Insanity.Seriously.

  • Kay

    Castiel was the only reason I continued watching Supernatural. If he's killed of then I've no reason to watch Sam and Dean be redundant alone together.

  • Jessica

    I just wanted to comment saying that Cas is as important to the show for me as Sam and Dean are.

    It might have started out as a show about TWO Winchesters… but now its about THREE Winchesters – Cas being an honorary member of the family. And if Dean doesn't do everything he can to save Castiel or die trying, then I don't think I'lll be able to forgive Dean, because he said Cas was like a brother to him and we all know that's what Dean would do for Sam.

    Also, my feelings about this show went from "Eh, its ok…" to "Wow this show is awesome!!" the moment Castiel waltzed through those barn doors. Misha Collins is one of the best actors on the show. He doesn't have to be a regular, but I'd hate to see him be gone for good.

    There are lots of ways to include Cas in the story without continuing the angel theme. Personally, I'd love to see Cas fall. Heaven is no longer his family., hevaen is no longer where Castiel belongs. "Much of the time, I'd rather be here" Give Cas what he wants! He belongs with Sam and Dean!

     

  • lara

    Can't say I'll watch Supernatural without Castiel. I'm sick and tired of feeling sorry for Sam and Dean and frankly it's getting old and I'm bored of it. Cas brings something special to the show and without him I'm out.

  • Jem

    Castiel Rocks! Sam and Dean should beg him for forgiveness cuz all he did was save their asses yet again.

    I started watching spn because of Castiel and I'm not gonna lie,  if he leaves the show for good I probably won't watch it anymore. Sorry if that offends people, but its just my honest opinion.

  • Sn..

    Yes u all right I do agree that the story is about Sam and Dan but Cass is important too as Den sad he is like brother to them so why not try to save him as he always was saving the brothers no matter if they were wrong or right . I love the story from the beginning is so interesting what will happen next ,but one thing I know we cant let Cass to die or to turn in to evil is nonsense . He is angel and he needs to be strong to save him and brothers must help him. I would love to see Den trying his best to do what he can to save him as he did everything to save his brother Sam ,why not to try to do everything to help Cass as we believe that family is everything and Cass is part of the family ..

  • Jay

    These types of protests/movements never work. Even the one time everyone thought it did when people protested Jericho it only lasted for 7 episodes. Writers and producers don't care what the fans think. It's gotten even more abundantly clear over the past 10 years then ever. It's just not worth the effort or money when it NEVER works out and changes NOTHING. Fans can complain or campaign as much as they want. Never changes what the facts actually are.

    The writers and producers are going to do whatever they want with the show. Fans opinions don't matter to them, because they firmly believe that they are indestructible. They only find out how much of a difference it makes if viewership and ratings go down and their shows get canceled.

    Either way, it doesn't matter because they just go work on some other show or create something new.

  • SPNfan

    I love Supernatural and I would never stop watching because a character I was never assured would be in it forever and was actually only in it a couple of seasons has left! I like Castiel, but he never replaced the Winchesters in my eyes, he was who he was, he was never the be all and end all of Supernatural and nor should he be!

    I understand Cas fans being upset, but really… to stop watching the show because he's been written out?? It's just not what a true fan of a TV show does!!! So if that's what you're doing, you really can't have been that big a fan in the first place!

  • Maheen

    I've been watching supernatural for a very long time , since i was in yr 3, I found interest in it , when my big sis was watch it in the living room , and from that moment I couldnt stop thinking about it, now I'm in yr 7 And Still Love Supernatural, but it's that if the show continues without castiel, (Our hot babe Misha Collins) nothing will be the same, I know that he wasnt in Season 1 to 3 but still now that he is , it just feel right to put him as a regular cast, i herd somewhere that at the finale of supernatural season 6, 20% of the viewers stopped watching, which is for me A LOT!! It's that Sera , (the executive producer) if u jus read our opinions n hear our voices , please , please put Misha bak on Supernatural (as a regular cast) I know that its a lot of hard work to do, but i will assure you that since the day my heart stops beating, thats the day , actually thats the day I would bring my Tivo and still watch Supernatural, I've always been a Supernatural fan , (n Always will Be) I would do anything to bring Misha bak , anything , I will pray every day till the day I see Castiel bak on channel 11. I would pray till my heart stops beating for Supernatural, Really i wud , LOL

  • Katie

    Please help Castiel to get back to the show by devoting your soul to him.

    http://www.facebook.com/pages/I-would-like-to-dev

    • Andy

      Wow, devoting your soul?
      Sister, that's way past sane behavior, you should really find help. Cas is a character in a tv show, not a God or a cult leader.
      O_o

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